Responding to a federated comment because I don’t have a .ml account:
Okay, but we are talking about a country where you aren’t allowed to form a political party that opposes the CCP, right?
There are eight other parties in the People’s Republic of China other than the *CPC
My favorite is the ICP
This is your brain on black-and-white thinking
Nah dude, nobody talked about an in-between. China bad, and America going bad too. In his image op implies people think that because China bad, america cannot be lol. That’s stupid
Yall would be demonizing the Algerians or Vietnamese people fighting for their independence from France’s ruthless colonial rule as “authoritarian”, and “both sides bad”.
I was gonna reply stuff but I don’t see how I could gain anything from it ? I was initially saying op’s take implied something stupid (note that I’m not saying your scapegoats don’t exist; but if they do they’re probably a minority), and that yours created a kind of “moderate” persona who’s always in between political views to mock that other user’s comment about not everything being all black or white. Which I replied to by affirming China already black and america going darker.
And now you’re bringing more unrelated shit into athe situation lol. Isolating both china and america they both look like shit, albeit one more than the other. Idk who the fuck is in your “y’all” but it doesn’t really matter to me and I don’t feel targeted. I don’t know enough about the stuff you tried to push on me to properly debate anyways, so I’m just gonna go sleep and enjoy my night lol.
China? The US is currently more compeeting with North Corea respect freedom and human rights.
and who supports north korea?
Why believe 1953 America about Korea?
Why believe 1965 America about Vietnam?
Why believe 1975 America about the USSR?
Why believe 1991 America about Iraq?
Why believe 2001 America about Iraq (again)?
Why believe 2003 America about Afghanistan?
Why believe 2014 America about Syria?
Why believe 2023 America about Palestine?
Why believe 2025 America about Korea?
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liberals brain breaking
System of a Down - The Prison Song
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in only one of those countries do jackbooted thugs roam the streets disappearing undesirables and it isn’t China
I’m not from the USA.
What are we, a bunch of ASIANS?!
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Shit redditors say 😂
If the US acted more like China y’all could actually be the best country in the world like your delusional population believes.
Rising standards of living, life expectancy, housing for everyone, affordable healthcare and fresh produce. What horrors, they don’t even poison themselves with hormone burgers bro.
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What on earth do you mean by “totalitarian?” China’s a democratic country, if the US was acting more like China we’d actually have good infrastructure, manufacturing, democracy, and a coherent plan for the future. Sadly, the US isn’t a socialist country.
China’s a democratic country
You know how America’s two party system is bad and really just a shadow of democracy?
China has a one-party system.
Democracy doesn’t mean “the ability to vote between parties,” it means the ability for the people to dictate policy. Socialist democracy cares far more about the latter than the former, while capitalists sell the lie that the former is what democracy even means to begin with.
False. The US prison population (relative to total population) is more than five times superior to China’s. US prisons are for-profit and lease prisioners to perform slave labor for other companies.
China is not only freer than Trump’s US, it is freer than Obama’s or Clinton’s US.
By the way, US elections have only two viable parties by design. Billionaires control the media and campaing funding. The system allows two choices for the people:
- Republicans: the entire world, including its natural resources and its people, is the private property of 100 persons.
- Democrats: Agreed! But we impose gender quotas on this 100-persons elite. This makes us democratic ™.
Why does he wear military clothing? Can the ICE agents not also just wear civilian clothes?
Being in uniform plus body armor and padding adds more to intimidation.
yeah that increases the propaganda effect of this meme.
What does a totalitarian state even mean? Based on liberals, left communists, and anarchists, it’s every socialist experiment that had lasted a great amount of time and accomplished better living standards for their citizens. 😂
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There are a lot of communists on Lemmy, and communists tend to support socialist countries. Simple as that. Plus, in the current era where the US Empire is dying, China is presenting itself as a better trade partner for the global south, one focused more on multilateralism and not on imperialism.
I just gotta pop in and say: thank you, comrades, for absolutely making my morning by dunking on some capitalists’ useful idiots.
I don’t know what it is about this post in particular, but the threadiverse isn’t sending its best 🤷
Edit to add: Some of them were so angry that they broke out their alt accounts to downvote some more.
I think some of the Reddit refuges honestly think Reddit sucks because Spez Man Bad. There’s no analysis of what creates Reddits and Spezes, and therefore they don’t recognize who made this platform and why.
I have to believe ultimately some of these people will come around, so that’s good at least.
Many do come around, Lemmy is quite good at radicalizing and educating in my experience.
The Chapotraphouse subreddit was radicalizing a lot of redditors when it was repeatedly hitting the front page of reddit fairly regularly and exposing people to counter-ideologies to liberalism that they never would have seen otherwise. Which is the reason why it (and then a slew of other popular lefty subs) had to be banned*. Despite all the lib-brained nonsense we have to constantly correct on this platform (the fediverse), there are an untold number of lurkers reading these discussions who are getting to see what actual leftist thought looks like when the narrow guardrails on the dominant narrative get removed. That exposure, especially when combined with witnessing the rapid intensifying of contradictions in their irl experiences, is enough to radicalize any thinking, genuinely open person. Lemmy being one of the few spaces on the internet where these things aren’t hidden or removed on sight absolutely plays a role in a lot of users’ leftward political evolution.
*It’s also why the fed instances like .world and piefed preemptively defederate, block, and continuously slander and demonize all of the leftist instances. They are literally trying to mitigate the spread of leftism that is inevitable when exposure to thought that’s outside the dominant ideology has a chance to get seen and voiced.
Jokes on them, my instance ignores down votes. Lol
That’s one of the things I like about blahaj, same as Hexbear. It would be cool if blahaj and Hexbear would refederate, but I understand why that’s unlikely.
I’m kind of new to lemmy in general and judging by the other comments I want to ask: is lemmy.ml full of ultras? Or is that what you’re talking about in saying they didn’t send their best?
If it is full of ultras, do you know of an instance(?) that either critically supports AES countries or at least has more of a mixed set of users? I don’t mind debate, but on every single comment it would get tiring.
Lemmy.ml is largely Marxist-Leninist, ultras are few on the fediverse. If you want an instance that is explicitly ML, then there’s Lemmygrad.ml. Hexbear.net is left-unity but doesn’t allow sectarianism, and is generally ML/anarchist, not generally ultra.
I have an account on lemmygrad as well so that’s good news to me. I’m now thinking that it’s more of an issue of me not fully grasping how the instances are organised having come from reddit.
Thanks for your input, my friend :)
No problem, comrade!
How frequent are alt-downvotes?
Yep, used to be very frequent. They’re easy to spot because they’re either no content accounts, or old accounts, with maybe 1 comment per month. We permaban them as they add nothing of value.
Makes sense!
They get Rule 4, “No Ads / Spamming,” because they’re spamming votes.
old accounts, with maybe 1 comment per month
Isn’t that just lurking behaviour?
If they are, its impossible to distinguish them from the targeted downvote bots ppl have written for lemmy.
Not as frequent as they used to be.
Gotcha.
Anytime comrade 🫡
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Both are garbage. The US is just a bigger pile of garbage (for now).
Totally both are garbage. But from anti-colonial and anti-authoritarian perspective, US has always been garbage. Trump only removed the pretensions. I mean, Joe Biden affirmed that US will invade Holland if any Americans are arrested by the International Court there. So much for a country that purports rules based international order, if the most supreme power the world has ever seen confirmed that such rules and order don’t apply to them.
recently found out this is a shunned view on a lot of lemmy
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I’m not very tech savvy and I’m just happy to have an account somewhere lol.
🤣
generally lemmy.ml is known for being a community with strong opinions on the subject.
Communists tend to support communists 🤷
Hi, CIA
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maybe we should hold a vote to defederate from them
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Yeah every one I’ve come across in the last few days have sounded like children. Or maybe they didn’t train hard enough on their language skills at troll camp
We are not all like this. I think this meme is stupid too.
Pure projection
Does the liberal mindset have no bottom to the ChInA BaD narratives it can spin?
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Using a yellow bear to refer to a Chinese man is pretty clearly a racist dogwhistle.
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China is a great place to live, that is constantly improving and developing. The evidence backs this.
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China isn’t imperialist, it doesn’t run an economy focused on international extraction like the west does.
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Winnie the Pooh was never banned in China, be less gullible
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Lol you are like a little baby
Oh my, you have a NATOpedia article? Clearly that’s beyond reproach.
I guess Epstein killed himself and Nordstream just did that on its own.
100% Agree. They all seem to be excusing chinese authoritarianism
Bedtimes are authoritarian
No bedtime, no spinach 😤
They’re right, cry about it
Oh no! What ever will we do without the libs!
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You are correct, this is all imaginary
Please report comments like this in the future ppl.
Imagine shilling for the modern American and European states like they’re anything anything like the ideals of socialism. Lmao. Ah yes, a neo-liberal oligarchic state ala America and a mass-surveilled and thought-crime regulating state ala the EU, what a worker’s paradise.
Here’s a question for your NATO handlers, if your ideas are so good, why do you feel the need to limit your citizen’s access to affordable healthcare? Why did they feel the need to treat the working class in such a way?
Because they have the same mentality as the uber religious, they think their beliefs are the one truth, but yet they’re terrified they can’t stand up to new information.
Don’t get me wrong, China might have its small issues, but at least they prioritize collective welfare over individual greed.
Just changing the Countries names doesn’t make it true… There is no mass surveillance in Europe. There is in China.
There’s absolutely mass surveilance in Europe, lmak.
Sure buddy, if you say so
Yes, I do, lol.
There is britain, the most surveilled country on earth… its in europe…
Extremely incorrect, in any easily verifiable way for which a reasonable person would be deeply embarrassed
your NATO handlers
You’ve definitely absorbed some propaganda. It’s anyone’s guess whether it came from Russia or China though. There is literally no reason to have a problem with NATO.
NATO is a millitary alliance of the world’s imperialist powers. Just like the cops are the thugs protecting capital, NATO are the fascists protecting imperialism. NATO destroyed Libya and Yugoslavia, and has launched terrorist attacks.
Small issues . Lmao ok. Tell me what the the villages are like in rural China. Have the collective welfare trickled down to them yet?
And open access to information via the internet and open speech are one of the main pillars of a successful society, and neither states have that. Who cares if you’re my comrade of I can’t speak against you if need be or have the ability to refute your information with research.
China has one of the fastest growing numbers of millionaires in the world yet its farmers and factory workers are still poor as shit, how’s that collectivism? It’s just state capitalism
The gap between rural and urban development has long been acknowledged and is already something worked on. The famous poverty eraducation campaign was focused on just that. Read The Metamorphosis of Yuangudui to see what that looks like in practice.
Secondly, the speech of capitalists and western media is restricted, but citizens speak to each other freely. The purpose of the control on western and capitalist propaganda is to develop independence and not let the west set the narrative.
Lastly, purchasing Power in 2022 was 25 times higher than 1978. This process is continuous. Further, the large firms and key industries are publicly owned, it’s a socialist country. You need to turn off Fox News and actually look at what’s happening in China right now.
citizens speak to each other freely
Can citizens investigate their government and publish and distribute criticisms of their government?
Depends, are they capitalists trying to undermine the system, or are they genuinely in support of socialism? If the former, no, if the latter, probably, though again if your other comments are anything to go by you just want liberalism to take over China.
This is a tier 4 city in China. Which is far down the development ladder and considered poor.
The vast majority of Chinese live in cities like this or better. Saying that there are still poor villages, well I give you this
Kensington Philadelphia is so drug infested people walk around like zombies. Does China have poor areas like that? Actually no, even the poorest villages aren’t that bad.
Yes, both countries have serious problems. At least Americans can discuss theirs openly.
Tell that to Malcolm X, MLK, or Fred Hampton
And it’s not like those were one-offs, COINTELPRO was crazy in scope and did massive damage beyond just the murders.
It’s not like that’s all in the past either, just look at how the Palestine protests were handled as well as the Floyd protests.
The freedom to shout into the void and have none of your concerns addressed.
Not to mention the fact that China has far more open discourse than the US and its media organs / capitalist controlled platforms allow.
I’ll take “things foreigners say when they’ve never been to China” for 500 Alex
I’ll take “sexpat that’s been to China, never left his bubble and is a China expert now” for 500 alex
Never claimed to be any kind of China expert but it’s absurd to claim “much more open discourse” if you’ve spent any appreciable amount of time in the countries being discussed. You can literally just walk + talk in public and see the difference.
Like all these asserted freedoms it just magically happens better and free’er but you definitely can’t verify it because “media”. The open political discourse I see and hear in major EU/US cities pales in comparison to the uh… hidden… open discourse in T1/T2 Chinese cities? Definitely heard some first/second hand political discourse but it was never, ever, ever a public forum.
By all means, give me evidence to the contrary. Maybe I just keep catching China with a bad case of the Mondays. Have you been? Can you point to any discourse on domestic politics? Where is the asserted diversity of opinion on hotbed issues? Can you show me any strong opposition to the party line on a public stage?
I guess you’ve never been on weibo westoid
I have! Have you been on it in China? Have you contrasted the foreign feed to a citizen’s? Have you seen the coordinated response to genuine spreading political discontent vs mundane petty scandals? Because it kinda sounds like you haven’t if you think that’s a killer response.
I have! And I have my Chinese friends feed too. Inside and outside of china. There’s definitely differences, but that’s how algorithms work
Have you seen the coordinated response to genuine spreading political disconten
Yes i have seen it. They solve things pretty fast e.g. COVID lockdowns when minor protests broke out, petit bourgeois real estate protests, etc. doesn’t look like you pay attention to things like that
Sometimes. For now.
So do Chinese citizens, though. The state exerts control over private media and the speech of wealthy capitalists, but there’s broad diversity in political thought and discussion.
Really? So Chinese citizens can go out and publish an article about why they believe Xi Jinping is actually betraying socialist ideals?
Some have. They’d be wrong, so it’s not super common, but it’s possible, assuming they aren’t a wealthy capitalist or something.
We have a few Chinese folks in the revolupedia discord so they definitely exist. We’re pretty aggressively against modern China.
From what I’ve seen on Chinese social media, you have two kinda minds. The folks who want a return to maoism, and the folks that are more liberal minded. That’s extremely reductive but that seems to be a sentiment repeated frequently by Chinese people so it’s likely got some truth to it.
I don’t uphold China, but I do think ~95% of what people have said in defense of China on this post is true. There’s lot of propaganda that paints China as monstrously worse than it is.
You’re free to discuss anything you want as long as it doesn’t actually threaten the status quo in any way lol
Just don’t demand or try to enact real lasting change
You are free to protest as long as we can tuck you in the corner and ignore you
At least Americans can discuss theirs openly.
Lol have you seen what’s been happening to pro Palestine protestors? BLM protestors? Anti Trump protestors? Julian Assange? Edward Snowden?
Those against the Iraq war, or Vietnam war…
Chinese too, and openly in the US currently not so much. People in China are heavy controlled by the Gov, but they have more civil rights and services as citizen in the US
Complete list of banned books in the US. (Autoscroll enabled, due to the hugh amount of those, stop/start with mouseclick)
https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/a45012950/banned-book-list/
US Freedom and Human rights only exist in Fox News.
People in China are heavy controlled by the Gov, but they have more civil rights
You guys are completely brainwashed if you believe this. They can’t even form a union or strike.
It always amazes me how gringos can just say the dumbest, fakest shit with such confidence then call you brainwashed.
If the State Department said Chinese people can’t play guitar you’d call us brainwashed if we showed you a video of one of them playing.
Crazy how you can literally just look this stuff up and find out what’s true instead of discarding arguments.
Independent trade unions are illegal in China. The single, state sanctioned trade union is widely criticized by international trade union orgs for not faithfully representing its workers. By most accounts it exists to funnel labor disputes through a bureaucratic meat grinder of mediation to maintain the status quo. With the exception of a handful of actions for international leverage, all strikes are wildcat.
If you’re actually interested in labor relations in China I’d recommend this article for starters. It’s older but the situation hasn’t improved under recent leadership.
Complete list of banned books in the US
Lmao what? Do you know what “banning” a book means? It’s just not on offer in schools or a library for that specific state. It’s completely normal to just buy it for yourself and there are even organizations dedicated to distributing banned books.
It’s hilarious to try and dunk on America with this of all things. Media restricted/censored in China is entirely unavailable. It’s actually very interesting how the censorship manifests in daily life, but I imagine any .ml reader will discard those anecdotes (or any verifiable reports) and try to redirect back to the West somehow.
Chinese average citizens can freely discuss what they want, the “disappearing” is just western propa
Really? So Chinese citizens can go out and publish an article about why they believe Xi Jinping is actually betraying socialist ideals?
I’ve spent some time in Shanghai and that was not my experience there.
Cool story
K
Clearly your experiences didn’t involve a whole lot of being disappeared, you’re still here
My cat’s breath smells like cat food.
