That’s what I’m saying, I support a progressive in the primary. But I’m not willing to start painting Newsom as the devil, because if he’s the nominee, I’m not gonna want to go to people I talk to and say “Well, I know I said he’s the devil, but now you have to support him.” This isn’t hard. I don’t know why there’s so much arguing about telling people to not burn a bridge in case you’re backed into a corner to vote for the lesser of two evils.
This isn’t theory, this is real experience. Already digging “your” (not you, just the general opposition to this thought) heels in and declaring that if a progressive doesn’t win we can’t support the winning democrat is so self-defeating it makes me wonder if much of the online progressive left are Russian ops. All I’m saying is “this may be the guy, why turn him into the microblog-headline enemy” now when we NEED people to get out and go to the polls when the chips are down if he’s the guy.
Or not, whatever, there comes a point where it gets too depressing watching progressives angrily take the high road to dystopia. I’m so tired of arguing with people whose side I’m on. I never get yelled at by conservatives, even those I disagree with to their face. A progressive will accuse me of being a fascist within the first 10 minutes of meeting me. The progressive cause is self-defeating, and it’s sad to watch.
No one likes the 2 party system, it sucks. But in the 2 party system, that’s the deal, you vote for the Dem or it’s a +1 to the R. I don’t like it either, but demonizing the Dems at this point to get people to stay home hands it to the R’s. This rhetoric becomes dangerous. Saying you don’t like the game doesn’t mean you can sit it out without consequences.
There’s a flow here.
If you spend all of part 1 poisoning the well on how terrible Newsom is, a lot of people will simply stay home if he’s the nominee when it gets to 2. I hope 1 happens. If it doesn’t, I hope all this rhetoric doesn’t make 2 fail. This dangerous purity testing is what leads people to stay home instead of voting for “less bad.” Even the suggestion of “be ready to vote for Newsom as a last resort” is too much for a lot of people, and THAT is how we get more Trump. This absurd copium fantasy that Harris/Newsom wouldn’t be better than Trump is just a way for angry people to sustain the outrage that warms them at night, but real people across the planet are hurting.
It would mean he does crappy AI things and doesn’t upend all our international climate agreements, gleefully enable hostile foreign powers to oppress their people while gloating with AI generated videos, send the gestapo into American neighborhoods, profiteer from hostile foreign powers, pardon crimes from his friends in exchange for cash, and lots of other things. You are letting perfect get in the way of “less bad”.
Politics in America is basically team sports, and language matters. “Newsom is bad” and “Khanna is better” are 2 different ways of speaking that have 2 different outcomes at the ballot box. It’s time to not let outrage stack the deck against us.
No, I think progressives need to push the party to the left, we need to get more progressive leadership into the DNC, and progressive results will grow the base to keep it sustainable.
But the language and outrage at this stage poisons the view of candidates, and in a general election, having people say “why would I vote Newsom when I just spent 3 years thinking what an awful corporate shill he is” makes people stay home, which hands the victory to the fascists. And there’s a lot of people out there whose entire living is outrage farming for superchats, and it moves the needle.
If it’s Ivanka vs. Newsom, you vote Newsom. This isn’t a game.
Running corporate centrists set the board up for a loss, demonizing them and getting people to stay home is how we executed the loss. It wasn’t a sure bet, and the fantasy that Harris would be as bad as Trump only exists in the minds of people NOT victimized by the gestapo and people who make money keeping progressives glued to their streams giving tips.
There is a spectrum. Trump/Maga/Conservatives are the worst and are actively marching us towards fascism. Corporate Democrats are the second worst. They’re not making the change we need and are prioritizing the wrong people. Progressives would be the best.
We have a 2 party system. If you spend cycles looking at #2 and saying why you shouldn’t vote for them, you hurt everyone. If the choice in this 2-party system is #1 or #2, you vote for #2, you swallow the medicine and take the pill, you tell yourself it’s a vote against #1.
Newsom wouldn’t be the best candidate, but all this psy-op crap about demonizing a Democrat front-runner is how you get the progressives to stay home and hand Trump (or his ilk) a third term. Low voter turnout for the left has to be fought. Sitting back and smugly criticizing why Democrats should do better literally killed Ukrainians, Palestinians, and American protesters. Getting people out to vote down-ballot is how we make the change we want and actually push to get a voting system that allows minority candidates to have a shot.
Yes, that’s the current consensus. Only the auto-update infrastructure was compromised, and it was a shared hosting compromise.
Just to be clear, N++ wasn’t compromised, the shared web host running the auto update infrastructure was. They responsibly disclosed it and shared safety steps. I don’t know if it is time to bail on them yet.
And there it is, you say all citizens, even those that object to the government, are fair to hold responsible for the actions of the government. YOU lumped them all together. Unless this is a special carve out for Jews, I hope you apply that to all nations. The Uhygurs being genocided in China? Fair to hold accountable for China’s hostilities in the south China sea. American socialist protestor who hates Trump? Valid military target for the attacks off the coast of south america. Average starving Palestenian? Directly responsible for the murder of civilians on Oct 7. I am obviously being absurd… You have been programmed to treat all Israelis as a monolithic thing, AND THAT IS ANTISEMITISM.
I think you are being deliberately obtuse, the rhetoric I shared is antisemitism, but since you have adopted a narrow definition for what antisemitism is derived from who knows where, rather than listening to Jewish voices, this is going to just have to remain an impass. Thought experiment, imagine going up to a black person and telling them that their perception of American police racism against black people is made up and they have to provide examples, all of which are dismissed as being justified or not counting. I understand there is nuance in protesting things the Israeli government is doing, and I acknowledge that they certainly leverage antisemitism as a victim shield… That doesn’t apply to average Jews, or many Israelis, but the rhetoric has no acknowledgement for that. If those links above can’t provoke a “ok, I see it, maybe he could do a better job of making sure average American Jews and Israelis are carved out” response, then we will never see eye to eye, and here we are arguing when we probably agree 99% of the time. Again, making enemies out of allies.
Welp, Hasan said things would be the same in Gaza under Harris or Trump. Trump won, the military is invading US cities and black bagging citizens, the stock market is higher than ever for the hyper capitalists and people can barely afford to survive. Bibis approval is higher than ever. https://www.jns.org/netanyahus-approval-ratings-at-all-time-high-poll/
I think you should consider if his rhetoric has actually helped or hurt the principles he claims to support. Hasan repeatedly said Kamala would be no better than Trump (on Gaza, which he painted as the only issue) and he directly moved the needle on low turnout from the left.
BTW, I am saying that the only power we have to remove Bibi is by appealing to opposition in his own country, that’s why I am talking about rhetoric he is eschewing, in a clip where he is talking about all Israelis as IDF members, about Israel, not all Jews. Hasan has many viewpoints that alienate Jews and many that alienate Israelis, where those communities overlap and where they don’t. Above is a clip where he alienates Israelis that would oppose Bibi, here is one where he is purity testing Jews worldwide: https://www.reddit.com/r/h3h3productions/comments/1k8k8ul/hasan_says_anyone_expressing_any_bit_of_positive/
BTW, that clip is from the H3 subreddit, which is likely a kneejerk dismissal. You can like Hasan, I don’t care. I like Ethan a lot. I also politically agree with Hasan a lot. Ethan is a chaos gremlin and I disagree with how much he accuses people of being pedophiles and uses certain terms, but I like his silly surrealist nonsense and his non-political stuff. People who like Hasan and his orbiters seem to be incapable, in my experience, with acknowledging criticism of them, which is dangerous, it’s when discussion turns to dogma. The whole discussion here is that a lot of people, including both American and Israeli Jews, feel there is a rise in antisemitism and are being silenced, which is alienating allies, and if you can’t acknowledge that, maybe consider if you are becoming mindlessly dogmatic.
Took me 6 seconds https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/1msloso/hasan_piker_says_that_hila_klein_is_a_valid/
Edit: I don’t know where you’re from, but in a country with mandatory service, this rhetoric is straight up dangerous. To take a teenager and say they are forced to go into the army or go to jail…they’re all gonna go and do it, even if they don’t like the government, don’t support them, and are dragging their feet the whole time. If this rhetoric is allowed to continue, you have shunned any possible allies that actually have power to overturn the Israeli government.
Wrong. Hasan is an opportunist that is so blinded on a single issue he says antisemitic things without realizing the consequences of what he is saying, and as he is increasingly radicalized on the Gaza issue (which is justified radicalization) he is losing the plot on being able to police himself, and is sliding headlong into rhetoric that has extremists applauding. He has done more to alienate Jewish allies who actually have voices and stakes in getting Bibi out of power by allowing his community to impose purity tests on Jews for their reaction to everything following October 7, and it’s directly strengthened Bibi’s support by turning allies into enemies. He has promoted us-vs-them rhetoric on IDF members with no nuance about the fact that they have mandatory conscription, so according to his rhetoric, it’s impossible for any Israeli to be an ally against the people in power creating the genocide. But, in my opinion, there’s this circle-jerk of outrage about Gaza that is so profitable to that community that the knee-jerk reaction to terms like “Israel”, “IDF”, “Zionist” etc gets views and donations and you can just spout things for clips without any nuance to literally watch money roll in. If you want the genocide to stop, Bibi has to get out of power, and you do that by creating allies out of the people that can actually vote against him and his regime, not hand-waving it away when they say “hey we’re getting freaked out by what sounds to us like racism.”
Hasan. Many of his adjacents like Mike from PA, Denims, Noah Samsen, then some featured collaborators like Bad Empanada.
This is insane to me, listen to any mainstream leftist twitch streamer right now. All Jews are held responsible for the actions of the government of Israel, and all Israelies are valid military targets because of mandatory IDF service, If they say nothing they are criticized because their silence is equated with complicity, and if they voice objection to the Israeli government they are criticized for not saying enough. All Jews seem to be slowly grouped together as Zionists by the left, where they then give themselves a pass to say horrific stuff. Then, talking about antisemitism gets them criticized as being perennial victims, hand-waving any actual discussion on it away. It is insane to me to hear leftist streamers objectively say identical things to Kanye and Nick Fuentes, things like Jews are indoctrinated from birth, or there are secret back channel communications where they coordinate on talking points, or they have a coordinated campaign to control the US government (once again equating American Jews with the Israeli government). Seeing the blind anti-Semitism happening in the US and the absolute refusal to confront it is so disheartening, and it has in my experience pushed several vocal leftist anti-Israeli government people I know to simply retreat and become non-political, silencing the voices of people who would have been powerful allies for Palestine.
I promise you my literal across the street neighbors, who are Jewish American Democrats, didn’t stop putting up their inflatable menorah for the holidays because they support the government of Israel, they did it because they fear for their family because they were being harassed, and we live in a dark blue area.
That is a fantastic level of dishonest cherry-picking of a starting point. Democracy is under attack due to Trump and Republicans in other states already forcibly gerrymandering, pretending that CA is doing this in a vacuum to be evaluated on its own as a statement on democracy is so disingenious it can’t be a serious position and can only be willful partisan instigation.
“We progressives will hold the free world hostage analogous to a gun unless you give us what we want.” Cool strategy, giving in to terroristic threats is deep in the American ethos and I am sure won’t alienate anyone and quickly bring us to a progressive utopia.