So much focus on the lever that nobody is trying to derail or cut power to the trolly
This.
Or be even more productive and go…
“STAND UP AND GET OFF THE FUCKIN RAIL AND GO LIVE YOUR LIFE!!!”
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You don’t give a shit about anyone but yourself
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one. You vote for the candidate that only wants to build only one concentration camp. Sure, both candidates are really bad, but one is considerably worse.
Therefore, we must still vote for the lesser of two evils. Not voting at all because both sides bad is how democracy dies, especially when democracy itself is under attack right now.
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one
So you support China in their liberation of Tibet from feudal serfdom? You support the Soviet Union destroying Nazism despite the excesses made in the gulag years? Or do you only extend this courtesy to capitalist imperialist regimes?
Obviously not. I don’t support building concentration camps in general, and China is a bad example since there’s no opposing party in Chinq. Admittedly, the example I gave was a bit on the extreme side. Regardless, I still disagree that if both sides are bad then they automatically are equalivent and thus voting is pointless as the meme seems to imply.
If Harris had won the 2024 election, do you honestly think she would be mass deporting immigrants without a trial, starting a trade war with China, attempt to cut funding for FEMA, etc? Sure, I’ll give you that she would have been content with the genocide in Gaza and would have been propping up the capitalist status quo. However, is that truly equilvent to what Trump has done in just his first year of his second term?
China is a bad example since there’s no opposing party in Chinq
There are eight opposing parties in China
Huh, I actually didn’t know that, point taken. I didn’t know China had elections in general
No investigation, no right to speak.
Your willingness to only engage in lesser-evilism with western genocidal regimes is very telling.
Sadly, western genocide will happen REGARDLESS of who I vote for, yeah. So, what do you propose I do about it other than protest and likely get arrested by ICE in a couple years for it? Attempt to sail aid to the people in Gaza and die along with them? I suppose it would preferable to get shot and die than live in a fascist America where my friends and family have to suffer, not to undermine what Gaza is going through though.
I suggest you don’t engage in lesser evilism with the west if you’re not willing to do with with geopolitics. Or if you’re willing to do it, then supoort China in the international geopolitics.
I think that’s a very reductionist opinion that ignores @pirate2377@lemmy.zip trying to honestly interact with you.
Stop being a prick, it doesn’t get you anywhere.
If Harris had won the 2024 election, do you honestly think she would be mass deporting immigrants without a trial, starting a trade war with China, attempt to cut funding for FEMA, etc?
Of course, look at her predecessor. Obama massively increased ICE, deportations, and did a pivot to asia.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the senate controlled by the right? Wasn’t it them that pushed for mass deportations?
I suppose you do have a point though, Harris wouldn’t need to be the only one who wins to make an actual difference, even if she would have just upheld the status quo that led to the rise in fascism. Still would have preferred that over what Trump is doing atm
China is a bad example since there’s no opposing party in Chinq.
The historical example they were giving is of China invading and annexing Tibet, wherein the vast majority of the population was brutally enslaved and a small class of theocrats lived on top of a huge and ever-expanding mountain of corpses, upon which they sexually abused and murdered countless serfs besides the ones being tortured and killed by the basic mechanisms of the system under which they lived.
So the “opposing party” in this context is the other side of the war, the western-backed theocrats who wanted to perpetuate their slave state.
For the sake of not completely spamming your inbox, I’ll just reply to a few more things within this comment if that’s alright:
Huh, I actually didn’t know that, point taken. I didn’t know China had elections in general
It’s only maybe half-true to say China internally has opposing parties. There are other parties and many of them are dedicated entirely to pulling the government onto a different path from the current one, but those parties also are constitutionally barred from controlling high offices.
However, China does have elections and those elections are meaningful, because you don’t need separate parties to have meaningful elections. You believe that primaries are meaningful, right? In many places (e.g. NYC), they are much more meaningful than the general. Intra-party elections are meaningful in the same way and for the same reason that primaries are, because there are still differences within a party, even more so in a country where there is only one full party and party membership is massive and pretty accessible.
I think it’s perfectly fair to criticize various aspects about Chinese democracy, but neoliberals characterize it in a hopelessly slanted way.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t the senate controlled by the right? Wasn’t it them that pushed for mass deportations?
You are wrong, deportations picked up immediately and were high for his entire Presidency, especially his first term. Dems lost the House in 2010 and the Senate in 2014.
Obama is significantly liable for those loses too, because he immediately revealed that he was a complete fucking liar and didn’t want to actually pursue a progressive agenda. Even if this scapegoating were true, I’d still blame Obama because he had every opportunity to keep control of Congress but didn’t, and then it’s not like he actually opposed mass deportations.
I suppose you do have a point though, Harris wouldn’t need to be the only one who wins to make an actual difference, even if she would have just upheld the status quo that led to the rise in fascism. Still would have preferred that over what Trump is doing atm
I would never vote for Trump and would strongly discourage others from doing so, but there’s a meaningful sense in which his winning is less bad. Bear with me for a second: If Trump loses, he’s not actually the anti-christ who is thwarted, banished to hell, and then the Unique Threat to Our Democracy is gone. There will be more reactionary leaders who are as bad and worse who will immediately take his place. Holding him off from reclaiming office for one more term on a platform of adopting his old policies is not the victory some people depict it as.
What we need if we are taking Trump-like threats seriously is not to bail water, but to smash the Republican Party to atoms and scatter it to the wind. The Democrats can never do this, and over and over again insist that the thing to do is to adopt further and further right positions, to the point that you had Kamala commending the idea of the border wall construction project, merely saying it was mismanaged but she believed we should do something like it. That’s not hard-nosed pragmatism, that’s throwing red meat to reactionaries and supporting the cult of xenophobia to try to be Republican-lite, or more accurately to compete with 2024 Trump by becoming 2016 Trump (in terms of actual policy).
Kamala winning would have been catastrophic, not because she would have implemented worse policies than Trump, but because it would be a complete defeat of even berniecrat left-opposition in favor of a race to the bottom with Republicans of who can be more bigoted, as they get worse and then Democrats move to take up their old positions. The canonical answer in American politics would be even more cemented as “We need to get Republicans to vote for us by being racist,” and freaks like Ezra Klein who say we need anti-abortion Democrats.
If this is what the Democratic Party is, then they need to be destroyed just as much as the Republicans, because all they do is redirect “resistance” to becoming Republican on a slightly slower timetable. We need an actual left opposition to destroy reaction and the Democrats would rather lose to Trump than be that opposition, so we should be allowing them to take us hostage like we could ever give into enough demands from them that they will release us.
The US is not and has never been a democracy
Oh, you’re right. My mistake. I guess I’ll just stop voting or even protesting then :/
Lol cry about it
Please do stop protesting. I don’t want white supremacists protesting against the destruction of the usa empire, I want them behind bars.
Protesting against the actions of Donald Trump makes me a white supremist? Sorry, I didn’t realize.
You get told you’re wrong and immediately throw your toys out the pram
More so pointing out how silly it is. If the US wasn’t a democracy, then why vote? If they’re referring to the electrol college or lobbying, then yeah, I don’t support those and think it’s anti-democratic. We’d be in agreement.
If the US wasn’t a democracy, then why vote?
It’s wild how people can look at sham elections where both parties serve the same oligarchs in other countries, but then think the biggest oligarchy there is, America, is somehow built different.
But do you mean "then why do people vote, or why should people vote? Cause the answer varies
Even strict dictatorships have elections to gauge how much support they have. They’re limited in how far they can go before spawning a revolution. Just because votes aren’t capable of inacting actual change against the ruling class’s interests doesn’t mean it isn’t useful. By voting for a third party you’re showing solidarity with the movement and demonstrating how the current system is a sham. By voting for the system you only legitimise it and give the rulers the excuse to say they’re acting legally and with the will of the people.
If you have to vote between a candidate who wants to build 5 concentration camps and another candidate who wants to build one. You vote for the candidate that only wants to build only one concentration camp.
Well it’s a good thing that we didn’t have that binary choice then. My ballot had a few options, some of them even opposing concentration camps, so I got to vote against them.
I would vote a third party if it doesn’t just help the right win. If only we had ranked choice voting instead of the electrol college, then we could crub the 2 party system. Unfortunately, in the US, it’s either red team or blue team because until you can change the hearts and minds of millions of people, then it’s always going to be one of them.
because until you can change the hearts and minds of millions of people, then it’s always going to be one of them.
You’re admitting to being one of the millions of people that votes and therefore legitimises the construction of concentration camps.
You’re a fascist.
I mean, I believe nixus was talking about voting third party, which here in America is just another way of abstaining to vote. The concentration camp example was just to point out that to say one bad candidate against an objectively worse candidate doesn’t automatically mean they’re both equally as bad. I regret using concentration camps as an example though. Perhaps a better example would be if you had the choice of voting for either Benito Mussolini or Bill Clinton. Both candidates are bad, but if I vote for one of them, am I in the wrong to make sure Mussolini doesn’t win by voting for Bill Clinton?
The concentration camps are a perfect example. No one’s saying both sides are the exact same. They’re saying they both serve US imperialism. Case and point: one side wants 5 concentration camps, the other thinks that’s a little too much and we should settle for 1.
If you want to build concentration camps you’re a fascist. If you’re okay with a party wanting to build concentration camps or can look past it you’re a fascist. You wouldn’t accept someone in the 1930s saying “yeah what the nazis are doing with the Jews is bad but have you seen their treatment of animals? I’ll vote for them but I’m no Nazi.”
So, what do you suggest I do then as an alternative to voting in this scenario? I suppose I could spill the blood of the politicians that want to build concentration camps, but once again unless I change the minds of millions of people and start a full blown civil war, then the bloodshed will be pointless. I could also move away from America, but that’s assuming I could even afford to do that let alone be able to do it legally. The only power I have as an American citizen as of now is to vote. That’s the only power I have. Protesting will eventually just get me arrested or murdered once Trump completes his power grab.
You have more power than just voting every 4 years lmao. Get organised and start interacting with like minded people and get other people on your side. Every 4 years there’s 1540 days where you could be fighting fascism and you’re only doing it for 1.
If the system is demanding that you support concentration camps, your main concern should be the destruction of the system by any means necessary, not the reduction of harm within it, and any measure that could be directed to the former instead of the latter probably should be.
If, hypothetically, the government demands that you choose between Hitler and Mussolini, the correct measures to be taking are ones directed at toppling the government.
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More like…
The lever can reduce the speed of the trolley depending on which way you turn it, but regardless the trolley will gradually accelerate either way.
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I’ll just tell that to my brother in law who just got released from ICE custody. Like I know this picture is probably true for Gaza, but it isn’t for many of my neighbors and family.
Kids are still in Cages. Biden just kinda forgot to release them once he got elected. I bet you have already forgotten Trump I.
The Democrats have consistently expanded ICE
Wait until you find out Obama deported twice as many immigrants(could be just Mexicans, I can’t remember) as Trump did. Or when you find out Obama dropped more bombs on Muslim countries than Trump. Or that Hillary raised twice as much money from corporations in ‘16 than Trump (same with Harris in’ 24)
It is also true people benefited from Obama’s DACA program. This isn’t a simple trolley problem let alone a single track
The difference is method, not end result.
The main purposes of DACA was to get immigrants to “come out of the shadows” and have individuals self-report and turn themselves in, in exchange for temporary benifits to, primarily, their children. As stated at the time:
“Deferred action is not a pathway to citizenship. It is not legal status. It simply says that for three years, you are not a law enforcement priority and are not going to go after you, It is temporary and it is revocable.”
It was part of a series of incredibly smart, effective and efficient moves which resulted in record high deportations without needing a bunch of jackbooted thugs cracking skulls in the street.
For a while. Now we’re in the “jackbooted thugs” phase which is less efficient, but plays better with the base it’s trying to appease. It’s less efficient and less people are getting deported overall, which is good. But the majority of those are switching from self-deportations to direct expulsions which are getting increasingly violent, a process that started back in 2021.
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Like when Obama drone struck that 16 year old American kid, and when someone in his administration was asked about it, he said that he should’ve had a better father? Yes, he was the son of a known terrorist. But to be fair, Trumps first military raid as president killed his sister, an 8 year old American girl, which Obama refused that mission(maybe twice, don’t quote me on that). Or when Jim Carry had that drawing of a school bus full of children that were bombed and killed, and it was under Obama. Those terrorists?
To mods:
How my comment was breaking this rule: “1. Be civil and nice”? Who did I insult?
Perhaps you need a third rule: “3. Don’t post anything that goes against Russian and Chinese propaganda”
Hmm I also don’t remember anything offensive? To be clear, I didn’t report, but at least it’s good to know if/when I decide to switch instances, won’t be to that one.
OK nvm, I just looked at the post. Seems like somebody on their side went a little haywire and removed a ton of comments. Now I’m offended that mine stayed up. I’m always such a ray of fucking sunshine.
Obama drone struck that 16 year old American kid, and when someone in his administration was asked about it, he said that he should’ve had a better father
Oh boy the irony
Really takes you back to the outrage when Trump said “We have to take out their families”
It went over your head didn’t it. When he is taking about ice he is talking about erosion of law and norms. Ice has always been a thing but they were not like this.
But go on.
Always is a stretch. Since 2003 during the Patriot Act days.
“Both sides” idiocy.
The GOP is full of fascists, KKK, white supremacists, religious fundamentalists and anti-science pieces of shit. There is no way to redeem them.
The Democrats are a mixture of economic conservative socialists liberals, and socialists. There is a chance to fix it.
The socialists are the minority because the economic conservatives are corrupt and very well funded by billionaire Democrats and Republicans making them an effective controlled opposition.
There are no socialists in any position of power in the democratic party, you are delusional
People that believe in socialism are socialists. They don’t have to label themselves that way.
Americans are so brainwashed to be afraid of certain labels that they will do everything that the label is but will still claim that the label is bad.
There are no people who believe in socialism in any positions of post in the democratic party.
People that believe in socialism are not given positions of power by the democratic party
I agree.
They have to win elections and they have to fight from within. AOC and the squad have been dealing with that since day one.
That’s my point. People that actually believe in fighting corruption can win elections in the Democratic Party. We need more people around the country to primary the centrists everywhere and work hard for the people.
They have to win elections and they have to fight from within.
Wait everyone! Don’t you see? If we join the Nazis we can change them from within!
All I see is goofy smug trolling and zero solutions. Give us some solutions.
Here’s one: study insurgencies that managed to hold off and/or beat the US and get ready to apply those tactics because that time is coming. Best get to networking too.
Death to USA.
I think It is hard for elections to push any reform. And that is for countries with actual democracy.
Socialism can only be achieved by non democratic methods
We already have socialism in the US. We have a mixed system. The issue is how mixed we want it to be and what specific policies would be the most effective at improving the lives of Americans.
Examples- Social Security, Medicare, Infrastructure, Fire protection, Police, national parks
Yes exactly! Socialism is when government does stuff, anarchism is when it does nothing, fascism is when he does but shouting and communism is when we do it all together holding hands.
ICE is socialism guys
We already have socialism in the US
SOCIALISM IS WHEN THE GOVERNMENT DOES STUFF
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No socialist would ever join the Democratic Party. Call themselves what they want.
“Economic conservatives” AKA
"Both sides
There is one side, the omnicidal rich imperialist side, and it wears two faces to fool people like you.
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One thing all seppos agree on: blame the foreigner. The thing they disagree on is which foreigner to blame.
good try igor we know you’re currently hanging in the lubjanka shoving caviar and drinking vodka :3
:sicko-wistful: except for the caviar, since I’m vegan
Vegan caviar it is.
I dont even know if I’m still allowed to say that in the EU lmao.
Yeah stupid consumers drinking scouring milk… need to protect them from themselves…
Yer yappin at a member of the PSL, baby
“Democrats aren’t fascist! Anyone who opposes us is a foreign agent though!”
Five minutes ago I saw discussion about a Democratic candidate, who was a Blackwater merc, Abu Ghraib guard and has a Totenkopf tattoo. Both parties are full of fascists.
“both sides are the same” - never the smartest person in class
Going to accuse him of being an evil ruskie next?
“We have to vote for the blue genociders because they’re different somehow from the red genociders, I am smarter than you btw”
Yours is the opinion of an intellectually lazy coward who will later lie and swear they had no idea what was happening in the camps.
To be fair, that’s pretty much the ancestry of West Germany. Well, that and all the Nazis who got a great big beautiful American bailout.
Tbf this is more post 1970s West Germany. Before that it was “Akshually I wasnt a true nazi, I merely joined due to muh evul soviet union who wanted to destroy Christianity!!”
They both serve capital at the expense of the working class. They arent the same exactly but they’re on the same side.
They both serve capital but one is fully captured while the other is fighting back but it is still well below the 50% needed to be able to redirect the party back to FDR ideals just without the 1940s racism.
Do you really think that the intersection of 40s racism and FDR ideals (for white people) is a complete coincidence? That there was absolutely nothing else happening at that time related to the US being able to sustain higher living standards for the working class?
You clearly are not educated enough on this topic to have an in-depth conversation. That’s not an attack on your character, but you really should consider learning more.
And before you say I haven’t provided solutions, real solutions & real change require theory and practice. It’s not easy and you will have a gut reaction to reject it because you are kept comfortable by the spoils of imperialism. This is why most people choose to not waste their time engaging with you and instead post memes. I have spent 30 minutes of my real life typing out a message that will likely not convince you of anything given what I’ve seen of your other responses.
If you actually want to fight for a better future then I’d be happy to provide you resources to learn more.
American parties play “good cop and bad cop” routine. They are not the same, but they work together to the same ends.
Genocide denier
Yeah! Let’s all vote mauve! That’s an option right? Teal? Aquamarine? So many choices!
In Poland last election saw 17 parties and 43 independents in sejm, but all of them are neoliberal fash ghouls.
You can only choose the flavours they “allow”
That was exactly my point, furthest left mainstream politician in Poland is Adrian Zandberg who is imperialist succdem and only split from the main den of succ because they ratfucked his sect on loot divide. There is not a single socialist to vote and wasn’t for years.
Furthermore: how many different parties are in the EU? How many EU countries are rising GDP expenditure in military to 5%? Democracy under capitalism is an illusion
I’m here for the comments 🍿
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I’m sympathetic to your argument, but ultimately they absolutely are fascist. If you doubt me, then to ask a Palestinian. There is very little that the Trump regime is doing that the Democrats weren’t doing less obnoxiously and on a much slower timescale.
We can’t keep accepting the lesser evil indefinitely. When you brush off the serious issues in the Democratic party with language like “no saints” you make it look like that’s exactly what you intend for the country to do. I mean “politicians will be politicians”. That’s not convincing anymore.
If you doubt me, then to ask a Palestinian.
Just to clarify this to others:
There is very little that the Trump regime is doing that the Democrats weren’t doing less obnoxiously and on a much slower timescale.
That part is important. I hear you about “the lesser evil” but if you’re response to resisting a lesser evil results in a faster, accelerated evil then you have contributed to a much greater harm. If you doubt me, ask a Palestinian if they are better off with Democrats not having any power.
To put it differently, if they are the proximate cause of the Trump presidency, then you are the ultimate cause. I throw up my hands at trying to decide which matters more.
That’s the part where I’m sympathetic to your argument. I think anyone not voting for Harris made a mistake. I also think the arguments people like you made for people to vote for Harris were really really bad and that you are enabling the Democrats to continue down a terrible path of failure.
I also think the arguments people like you made for people to vote for Harris were really really bad and that you are enabling the Democrats to continue down a terrible path of failure.
The argument I made for people to vote for Harris was that this is exactly what will happen if Trump wins, and 3 months before an election is not the time to try to get a viable alternative. Harris sucked, her campaign was shit, but the alternative is running the predictable course.
Now is an excellent time to work on a viable alternative, but saying “both are the same” is disingenuous, and is not actually putting an alternative forward.
If you doubt me, ask a Palestinian if they are better off with Democrats not having any power.
Biden was in power when the genocide started and during most of it. He had the power to stop it and didn’t. So there’s your answer.
So the Genocide hasn’t accelerated under Trump as OP claimed?
No. It continued at the same rate. It is a nonsensical argument anyways. Biden could have stopped it but chose to pass it on to Trump.
Okay, don’t vote for Biden then.
Swapping faces changes nothing. The rot starts with the DNC and without a formal apology for enabling the genocide the party is dead to me just like the Republicans. Two corpses fighting it out and I am not into necrophilia.
Palestinians have been a victim of genocide since 1948. Biden send cops to beat down pro-Palestinian student protestors, Bill Clinton went to Dearborn and talked about Samaria & Judea, a thousand democrat voters cackled on twitter wishing violence on gaza after holocaust harris lost.
Genocide and Empire is bipartisan politics and we will destroy both of them. Lies must make place for truth and empires mush perish.
They’re certainly no worse off.
OP just said that under Trump the genocide is happening faster and you don’t consider that worse off?
Because they’re lying; the genocide was just as bad under Biden
The world cares about what they do to other nations, not to themselves. Crazy gun policies? Slave labour in prisons? Your problem. Military expansionism, cripling economic sanctions, political inference? Very much our problem. That did’t change.
Is committing genocide not a fascist act?
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God, how much is a sniveling little toad do you have to be to engage in that kind of nit picking semantics about genocide.
Fascism provides a specific permission structure for genocide that isn’t present in other systems. That’s not to say genocide didn’t happen before the term was coined, but that the characteristics of fascism; nationalism, racial supremacy, military supremacy, victim complex, out groups, scapegoating, disdain for human rights, etc.; tend to be present anywhere that genocide is present, and genocide doesn’t just happen because some “genocidal regime” found its way into power.
Whether or not you need their permission to make the policy; you need the people’s permission for it to stand, because ultimately you need the people’s voluntary compliance in order to carry it out. Otherwise you undermine your own system and generally incite resistance against it.
I don’t give a shit about " bankrupting the US!". It literally prints it’s own money. But I sure as shit do remember Democrats going full fascist and participating in the modern Holocaust.
democrats are no saints.
By which you mean they’re genocidal monsters.
They aren’t fascists, yet they’re committing a genocide:
Democrats: against every genocide except the current one.
They just do nothing to stop the fascists when they have power and do everything they can to compromise with them.
If there’s one lesson to be learned this year, it’s that politicians who compromise with fascists are still miles better than just uncompromised fascism.
Great hero of the people: Neville Chamberlain
If you had to choose between Neville Chamberlain and Hitler?
I’d say that’s a ridiculous choice and it’s time to organize with the masses against the system that presented it to us; rather than undermine that effort by treating the system as legitimate and shaming others for not seeing the candidates and their futures the way I did.
Hand me two cups of shit, I still have free will to throw them back in your face. The system can force feed if it wants but you won’t see me voluntarily picking a shit cup and eating shit.
I’d say that’s a ridiculous choice and it’s time to organize with the masses against the system that presented it to us
Agreed
rather than undermine that effort by treating the system as legitimate and shaming others for not seeing the candidates and their futures the way I did.
Nah that’s dumb. I don’t give a shit about “treating the system as legitimate”. The system is what it is, and it will continue to be the system until it isn’t anymore. That’s gonna take more than a handful of people refusing to acknowledge the system’s “legitimacy”.
Hand me two cups of shit, I still have free will to throw them back in your face. The system can force feed if it wants but you won’t see me voluntarily picking a shit cup and eating shit.
It is doing that though. You get the option to vote for which of the two cups they force feed you, and everyone else. We are not presently in a position to throw anything back right now. When we are, I’m all for it. But part of that is choosing the smaller cup of shit while we gather strength.
The point is I’m not going to lend you any legitimacy by picking up the shit and eating it myself, then turning at the people around me and asking why they aren’t eating it yet. I’m going to make it impossible for the shit peddler to hide their willingness and ability to abuse their power. If I’m eating shit either way, why would I do it in a way that makes it apparent to outsiders that I’m choosing to eat shit?
And no, when you scold people for not participating in a system, you are not just not “refusing to acknowledge its legitimacy”. You are promoting it, whether you care to or not. You are promoting the idea that everyone is choosing these options out of complete and true support of complete and unbiased information. This is especially true when people like you misrepresent and refuse to understand the arguments of those who choose to abstain or vote third party.
You are saying, “if you participate in this system, you could change the way things are going; and if you don’t, then you implicitly consent to it”, which is simply not true. Interestingly enough, you know how little power a person has when acting as an individual, which is why you minimize the reach of individuals when it comes to forms of political action other than voting, but you never apply it to the situation of voting where the ruling class has vast numbers of ways to influence people’s behaviors in whatever direction they want.
The change can only come when we have built the ability to move cohesively as a class, or a voting bloc if you will, that can either take power for itself or force our leaders to come to our table if they want our compliance. We can only build this by overcoming the resentment we hold for other members of our class, and putting one foot in front of the other; turning one person at a time towards the inner workings of the machine that the ruling class works so hard to hide. Not by stoking resentment and wasting our energy trying to manipulate an illegitimate system while we wait around for the movement to build itself.
More like choosing between Hindenburg and Hitler.
politicians who compromise with fascists are still miles better than just uncompromised fascism
the paradox of tolerance, ever heard of it?
Yup. Ever heard of Duverger"s Law?
What’s the actual difference? You end up at the same place with either one.
This feels like trying to explain to someone that you can have 2 different infinities, and one is larger than the other. Both are bad, but one is clearly worse.
“What’s the difference if you end up at the same place?”
The difference is that 2 genocides is not the same place as 1 genocide. It is reasonable to criticize the people supporting a genocide while at the same time recognizing that the people wanting more genocides are not the same.
The difference is that 2 genocides is not the same place as 1 genocide.
How do you find yourself typing something like this and not pause for thought?
What’s worse than genocide?
2 genocides.
I don’t know how to make this any more clear.
Seriously, how do you not pause for thought typing that out?
Hell yeah brother. Personally I think Hitler was fucking great and would vote for him in a heartbeat if it meant stopping Himmler from being in charge. /s
The only real difference is that there are consequences for you at home in the US and that’s the only part you actually care about
And a million dead kids because Trump killed usaid but go off I guess.
“But what about the american children” like I said
I don’t live in the US, there are no consequences for me as a result of Trump being president. Significantly more people are being harmed under Trump and I actually give a shit about other people instead of putting some idealized moral high ground above actual human lives.
People were being harmed under Biden, our foreign and domestic policy has consequences for the vast majority of the world, you’re either a moron or lying
Zero genocide isn’t an idealised moral high ground and it’s incredibly telling to see someone excuse it.
The difference is that 2 genocides is not the same place as 1 genocide.
You are already a fascist. You have already approved the genocide of a nation for the sake of what? Saving minorities in America? Guess what you will send them straight to the furnace the moment they become “expedient” to sacrifice for your own gain.
The first they came for poem comes to mind.
Says who? Yeah, the Dems are filthy neolibs, but all they really care about is money and influence. They’re rainbow capitalists.
The other is literally based on hate and fear, they might actually care about building a christo-nationalist ethnostate more than money.
They certainly have some goals in common, but even compromise isn’t going to the same place.
They’re rainbow capitalists.
They are rainbow capitalist because of former material conditions. Besides bombing the Middle East because of alleged inherent homophobia and steal their oil or bombing the Middle East because they are slur and steal their oil - is in the end a matter of rhetoric only.
but all they really care about is money and influence.
Correct.
That is why they maintain American imperialism.
Such as funding a genocide in the middle east.
Exactly. They fund genocide because it’s politically expedient. The opposition funds genocide because they love killing brown people
It’s conceivable to convince one side that genocide is no longer politically favorable. You’re never going to convince the other side to stop wanting to kill brown people. There is no third option with prospects to win.
You cannot convince the rich and powerful that it’s politically unfavourable when it’s economically favourable to do genocide.
They don’t care about what people want. They care about what they want, and that’s US imperialism.
Bro is making a life out of ragebaiting democrat leaning lemmitors.
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