Generated via https://github.com/ublue-os/countme
10k added users since last post. Here are upstream Fedora numbers only
Bazzite just works when it’s a regular desktop. The HTPC (with steam game mode) one has a major issue that I don’t see them even addressing, it doesn’t suspend. It goes into a permanent black screen and the PC is still running. Nothing revives it beside a forced reboot. I reported it to their GitHub and got nothing really. I thought it was my hardware, but I had a friend of mine bring his whole tower to my house, we installed bazzite and it did the same thing. His tower has all new AMD hardware. On my laptop, bazzite is solid as hell. Works with zero issues.
It works very nicely on my legion go.
And on the Asus devices. I’ve had this WiFi issue on bazzite on my onexplayer for months until a random developer fixed it by disabling the wifi driver on the device sleeps and re-enables it when it wakes up. The device is now flawless.
Very fun, I’ve been rocking Fedora workstation for years. If Fedora could take off as the gaming distro that’d be great, I’ll get even more up-to-date top-notch graphics drivers without having to change distros
Been using it on my desktop since a bit before F40 came out I think. Big fan!
Me too. The Bazzite desktops are amazing.
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Go Bazzite, there has been a lot of talk about Bazzite lately, also on YouTube many have been reviewing it, like JayzTwoCents had a feature about it, which probably helped.
I haven’t tried it myself, but it’s great to see that it’s still possible to shake up the Linux community with a new approach.
Congratulations and best of wishes. 👍 🎈Is there an overview of what differentiates all those Fedora Atomic derivates?
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Yeah, there’s the KDE version, the Gnome version, the Sway version, the Budgie version and the Cosmic version.
There’s also uCore as a server OS, but I haven’t looked into that very much.
It’s mostly about what software is preconfigured. I’ve run Bazzite for a while and it’s been great. Bluefin has been nice too but admittedly it’s a pretty run-of-the-mill OS.
Gaming will always take the lead—gamers are usually quick to chase the newest and shiniest things. Bluefin/Aurora adoption takes a bit longer because developers have to adjust their workflows, and there’s still this odd stigma around atomics. People assume you “can’t do things” on an atomic distro that you can on a traditional one, when in reality it’s mostly the same—just a slightly different approach in certain areas. Like with Nix, once it clicks, the pros far outweigh the cons. Personally, Bluefin has made me a more organised and efficient developer.
I can’t upload the images for some reason but here’s the current numbers for the ublue spins
- Bazzite: 26k users -> bazzite.json
- Bluefin: 1.9k users -> bluefin.json
- Bluefin LTS: 40 users -> bluefin-lts.json
- Aurora: 1.3k users -> aurora.json
Bluefin/Aurora adoption takes a bit longer because developers have to adjust their workflows, and there’s still this odd stigma around atomics.
Bluefin maintainer here, our target audience are container people, not people who want to adjust their workflows. The people we cater to don’t have an opinion on “atomics” because no one’s ever heard of that term. They’ve heard of docker or podman though.
I actually just switched from Bazzite to Bluefin on my devices, even my gaming PC
Mostly because I wanted a more minimal/essential experience with less pre-installed packages
I’m sure I’m sacrificing a little gaming performance, but nothing noticeable by me so far
:shrug:
I honestly don’t know what any of that means. I use Bazzite for automatic updates, Gnome extensions, Portal/ujust commands, update rollbacks, and game mode/Gamescope. It’s simply the most usable distro I’ve found. Bazaar is a nice bonus too. Gnome Software has infuriated me for a long time and I feel like a crazy person because no one talks about it.
I used Nobara for about a month and was constantly pestered with update notifications. There were multiple updaters, I didn’t really understand how to use either of them, and they required a lot of manual input. Eventually I tried to do something else while the updater was running and broke it.
He’s not talking about Bazzite, though. Bluefin and Aurora are built from the same cloud tech as Bazzite, but are more focused towards devs, specifically devs who use containers.
Joke’s on you, Jorge. I use U-Blue just for the great general purpose desktop experience.
I mean yeah sure, if you’re not a developer you can just use it like a chromebook. :D
Thanks Jorge the good work! I had been using silverblue for years and now I’m running machines with bazzite, bluefin, and ucore os. I really, really enjoy how easy to manage atomic distros are, and how they steer you towards better practices (in dev and sysadmin) by design. Thanks!
once it clicks, the pros far outweigh the cons
I would love to hear a pro about atomic distros that isn’t some vague platitude about security or stability. I have zero security/stability problems on my ‘normal’ Fedora.
As someone who has steadfastly avoided atomic distros because it sounds like an arseache and the last thing I want is more busywork. Convince me to switch!
Security isn’t really one, but saying don’t mention stability is proving the point—Fedora goes to ten, but Silverblue goes to eleven. That’s like saying, “tell me why Arch is good without mentioning the up-to-date packages.”
For Bluefin, it had everything I was doing with Fedora and then Silverblue OTB, and then some things I didn’t realize I needed. Yes, you can run a container-focused workflow in Fedora, but atomics keep you focused on good practices. With Fedora, my system became a bit of a dependency hell with Python and npm packages; now I have a container per project that can either have its own home dir or just seamlessly integrate with my main system.
I’m the whole IT and dev department for my company, so I would often have dedicated VMs etc. for each focus. Now everything is just seamlessly in my system.
It’s a bit of a reset for sure what isn’t, but once it’s done you know you can just hit the power button and everything is there ready to go.
I’m getting into rolling my own spin at the moment for our thin clients as they only have 16GB of space, and that’s been really easy to set up. Now I have a trimmed-down Bluefin that comes packaged with Remmina, and I can deploy updates just by updating some files on GitHub. It’s really not more busywork, pretty much the opposite for me, my root is basically /var and anything lower level I don’t really need to be messing about with on a workstaiton. I have all my tools most out of the box. I have every language package esp elixir thanks to brew have you tried setting up iex on Ubuntu it’s dog egg. On bluefin, I just brew install elixir.
Thank you for the informative response! :)
saying don’t mention stability is proving the point
My point is that stability is already 100% fine for me now. So saying you’ll make my already rock-solid experience somehow more stable is meaningless. As a power user for over a decade, I’ve personally experienced zero issues where I wished Fedora was somehow more stable. It’s like telling me that Silverblue connects to the internet - Like yes, I already have that.
From what I’m reading, it sounds like the singular ‘pro’ is being forced to do cleaner, more self-contained practices. I can totally see how that would be helpful for some people. But personally, I would genuinely despise that kind of restriction.
I’m admittedly the kind of person who hates being forced to do the ‘best practice’ thing. I’m genuinely happy that my Linux distro will me
rm -rfthe root partition (with an ‘are you sure’ prompt these days :) ). I’m happy that if I really want to purge the kernel package with dnf, then I can. I want (and kind of need) my freedom to make a mess, if I tell Linux to jump, it will goddamn jump, even if it’s a bad practice technically terrible decision. I have zero interest in going all around the houses just to do it the technically correct (and sometimes less-effort-in-the-long-run) way. If I ever want a clean plate, I can still spin up a container just like you’re saying.So I get the feeling that atomic is very much not for me, which is what I suspected :) Very glad that people like yourself find it an improvement, that’s what flavours are for!
Exactly that. It’s not the be all and end all for Linux, nothing ever will be and that’s OK. Some people have had a few issues, especially when Fedora was in the 30s. Just did a quick search, even this year some users reporting it borking itself. But like you, I have never had an issue, but when I deploy machines that are 100 miles from me, I don’t want to deal with that, same for my work machines.
Bazzite works really well for my living room PC, wife approved PS5 replacement. Again, for my personal gaming rig I don’t want to get home go to game and have to deal with some dependency issue. I put Bluefin on my field laptop because again I use it sporadically, and it’ll update on boot if it was cachyOS or workstation there’s a chance it could drift out of spec enough to bork.
So yeah I love the Atomics, but I was prob 90% the way there before Silverblue came about and 95% there when the Ublue stuff stated rolling out.
Like a lot of things Linux it’s not the future of Linux but its a future I think.
I switched to fedora for stability and pretty consistently each major update would break my computer. I switched to fedora silverblue and everything is so much simpler and upgrading is a breeze. A few times I have missed the simplicity of just installing random obscure software or toolkits for school but typically I can use containers and that also works nicely.
I also prefer using containers anyways because that aligns with how I mentally organize things. Flatpak has basically everything I need so that’s not a concern either.
Edit: I see you don’t benefit from stability, so don’t worry about that bit. It benefits me greatly though.
IME the nicest part of Bazzite is not having to manage it. To that end, it works on my Steam Deck. But that’s nothing to do with stability, as you say. In its own ways it’s more annoying to use than a regular distro.
Clearly people are finding use for it, but I personally find those annoying aspects needless speedbumps in my own usage. Except for, again, on my Steam Deck.
Convince me to switch!
Why? If your computer is working fine there’s no reason to mess with it. bootc images are for people who do not want to use whatever you mean by ‘normal’ Fedora.
Because I was being told the pros outweight the cons, and if I can get a better OS, then I want it? I feel like it was a reasonable question and we had a good conversation out of it.
I also put ‘normal’ in quotes myself, I obviously meant a non-atomic Fedora.
I feel like you’re coming across unnecessarily dismissively here, when I was just out for a nice conversation on the benefit of atomic setups (and got two! :) ).
j0rge is one of the main devs of bazzite and theres a lot of very strange people in this thread on lemmy.ml chumming the waters here, atomic distros doing well apparently bring out the worst in the strangest linux nerds who think their way of life is under attack. On hexbear a lot of these people causing a ruckus probably aren’t even viewable
edit: yeah the thread here on lemmy.ml has 153 comments currently and on hexbear its 63 and much more tame, lol
Oof, fair enough, I certainly don’t see a lot of said ruckus. Cheers for the context.
They should be scared, we’re here to replace their 30-year failed experiment with tech that’s already successful everywhere Linux makes money.
I’m told my cute’n’calm Hexbear instance means there’s a lot of drama here I can’t see. So apologies if my tone comes off badly in the ol’ .ml context.
Rest assured I was just out for fun conversation to learn about atomic stuff :) Hope the rest of this thread ain’t too stressful.
I don’t think I’ve even tinkered with Bazzite since installing it. It just works. You do have to get used to container workflows and using flathub but its a marginal amount of overhead for improved security. Bonus points: you can lazy install lots of apps with distrobox, for example you can install .deb files, .rpm files, pull from the AUR, its no biggy, and its all preconfigured and easy to setup.
It’s also nice to be able to rebase your distro whenever you want to try out different spins and features, makes inter-fedora atomic distro hopping easy without destroying your configs.
Thanks for the response, though up to this sentence I’m hearing extra busywork and slow/annoying containerising, in exchange for vague security platitude and a tool which I can already use.
It’s also nice to be able to rebase your distro whenever you want to try out different spins and features, makes inter-fedora atomic distro hopping easy without destroying your configs.
I’m interested by this. Is there a uniqueness to Atomic setups such that you can (more easily) keep your user partition, GNOME configs, etc. and swap out the Fedora distro underneath?
Yep, I can for example rebase from Bazzite to Secureblue and keep all of my configs intact for say, KDE. So if a project goes fubar you aren’t out of luck and need to reinstall and reconfig linux, its trivial to rebase/“swap distro”, its a single command that looks like this
rpm-ostree rebase ostree-image-signed:docker://ghcr.io/ublue-os/bazzite-dx-nvidia:stableAll programs, files, configs, etc are intact in your home directory. I’ve swapped between user created spins for different DEs like Cosmic and so on, whats cool is its all preconfigured to run well under bazzites kernel. Image based upgrades are also very nice, theres inevitably config drift that messes with performance or updates can break your setup on other distros, image based means the devs tweak every interaction and push it all to you with the least effort possible on your part.
This is very cool, and I can suddenly see atomic being useful for certain circumstances. Won’t be using it for my personal computer main driver, but hopping/resetting this is easily attracts me so.
rpm-ostree is pretty nifty in general, it functions like git so it reapplies each of your configs over what the devs do each time you upgrade, leading to as little config drift and broken upgrades as possible. each upgrade feels like a fresh install imo
I switched from Fedora KDE to Kinoite a few months ago. Both were 100% stable for me as well.
The main reason I switched to Kinoite is because I’m a digital hoarder and after 5 years or so all my systems are completely trashed with various libraries, 12 different PHP/.NET versions, custom builds and a bazillion Python packages.
In the end it always causes issues like my builds stop working because I have some ancient version of a library stashed away somewhere.
Immutable distros are really easy to return to “factory defaults”. It keeps a list of all the packages that are installed on the system and everything else now goes in Toolboxes, Distroboxes or Docker containers. If I mess up my C++ environment (again) I can just delete that toolbox and start from scratch.
I still manage to bloat my home directory but that is much easier to clean up than looking through all system files.
Bingo. This is the explanation.
I use Aurora DX for my work box! But yeah all my personal PCs run Bazzite now.
I started on Bazzite but transitioned to Aurora for my personal PC and wife’s laptop. God I wish I could use it for work. I’m forced to use Windows or Mac.
I had been using Aurora-dx, but I also like to play games, so I re-based to Bazzite-dx when it became available.
Call me a Luddite, but I want to retain control over my updates and upgrades. I fear the day that Fedora becomes all atomic, all the time, which I can’t help but think is in the cards
What’s stopping you from turning updates off?
Then what would be the point of using an atomic version?
I am interested in Bazzite, but am unsure about its compatibility with NVIDIA GPUs. Had anyone here had experience with this?
They make dedicated Nvidia images and I’ve heard good things. It’s supposed to be one of the distros to pick if you want a good out of the box experience with Nvidia. Only used the Amd/Intel image myself though.
Worked great in VM with Nvidia A4000. Zero problems, just a learning curve to use
rpm-ostreeandbrewinstead ofdnf.You should not be using rpm-os tree as a replacement for DNF. Their docs have a software installation section that specifically state it should be avoided.
Yeah, you should be using flatpak wherever possible. I currently have only gnome-tweaks and zsh as layered packages. Everything else is a flatpak, brew or lives in a distrobox.
Thanks for the advice but unfortunately I don’t read documentation.
Works fine with the nvidia open drivers, what gpu you got
Geforce GTX 1080
Bazzite has a build for the older proprietary nvidia drivers, I’m pretty sure 1080s dont get the open source variant of the driver unfortunately 😔
https://github.com/NVIDIA/open-gpu-kernel-modules
https://download.bazzite.gg/bazzite-nvidia-stable-amd64.iso this is the download for the proprietary nvidia kde iso
https://download.bazzite.gg/bazzite-gnome-nvidia-stable-amd64.iso this one is for gnome
I don’t know how well the proprietary driver runs, I assume if you got it running on another linux distro this will work fine
Thanks! I am still very new to Linux and have been learning the OS through OpenSUSE on an old laptop. Still debating which Linux distro to switch to for the windows desktop (the one with the 1080)
Could try dual booting to see how your hardware works
I run bazzite on an old laptop with a 1050, runs flawless.
I’m rolling a 1080 on Bazzite and it’s worked great for me, as well as NVIDIA does on Linux generally. Which is to say, much better than it was 2+ years ago but still could do with some improvements.
That’s promising to hear! For the drivers are you using Open GPU?
I still have to look into the 1080s compatibility with this. Thanks OP for mentioning it.
Like the other poster said, the open drivers aren’t for the 10-series and earlier. It’s because the microcode that NVIDIA wants to keep proprietary is within the GPU on later series, rather than the driver.
Turing or newer. 20XX or 16XX and newer.
Same here also on a 1080, but with the closed-source drivers. There’s some issue they’ve had for at least the 6ish months I’ve been using it where with my dual screen setup sometimes hangs. Apparently it’s a known bug and they haven’t fixed it. It hits me about once every couple of weeks these days. Other than that it has run every game I’ve tried as well as Windows.
Ah yeah, I know the one you mean. It seems to be intermittently fixed but I’ve just rolled-back when it causes issues.
It seems better now than it was a few months ago. Back then it actually locked up my machine if I triggered the bug. Now it just temporarily slows things down.
But, I haven’t gambled on running a few apps that would regularly trigger it just in case. What’s funny is that modern Steam games are no problem, but it’s running emulated games using Emulation Station that causes problems. Games from 2024, no problem. Games from 1984? Hey, that’s pushing it.
Emulation is a hell of a drug…
The open drivers ? You mean the ones without 3d acceleration support ?
That’s not the case for the newer open source drivers from nvidia. They’re only compatible with the last few generations of cards but they’re performant and the only feature they lack is CUDA to my knowledge. Not talking nouveau here
No they have CUDA. The open driver from Nvidia just means the kernel module has an open source license. They are still the same proprietary pieces of shit that you know and love from a user space perspective.
cuda works fine on 4070 right now, though iirc certain specific things dont run well and are a little funky in comparison. i think it was ollama? but llama.cpp seems to work fine, same with things like comfyui
Oh ok, that’s pretty good then.
But I do hope we’ll get an open cuda replacement soon and some sort of gpu partitionning/ vgpu capabilityIntel Arc Pro is the only GPU attainable to normal people that supports SR-IOV. in general using a couple cheap cards is more reasonable than one expensive card that handles all those functions.
🤷♀️ I don’t know much about that, cyberpunk runs perfect on my 4070 idk what else you could want
Then you are surely running the proprietary nvidia drivers, not the open source “nouveau” nvidia drivers ?
No it’s definitely the open drivers
“nouveau” != “Nvidia open source drivers”. Nouveau was community made by reverse engineering. Nvidia has released their own open source drivers now.
thanks, this explains my confusion, I recently lost half a weekend to this distinction !
Works fine, but there are a few issues with game mode specifically.
20XX onwards in desktop version is fine. I’ve only heard issues when using gaming mode on the HTPC version, and even then i think it’s just inside the gamescope steam menu it’s shit, in games it’s just fine, no difference.
It handled it like a pro for me
I use a Fedora variant called Nobara with my 4080. Driver management has been great.
Bazzite is not growing because it’s immutable.
They all are
But “being immutable” is not why Bazzite is growing.
Angry upvote.
?
The upward trend is not because Bazzite is immutable.
I disagree with you fundamentally, if it wasn’t for the simple updates and stability this would not have the success that it does. The image is part of the model.
lol you’re confusing me, bazzite isn’t immutable. Do you mean to say “Bazzite is growing for other reasons?”
Wut? You’re responding to a trend graph for Fedora’s immutable (Atomic) forks.
Built on Fedora’s rpm-ostree system, Bazzite uses an immutable design with atomic updates and rollback functionality.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bazzite_(operating_system)
But yes, since the trend chart is showing immutable distros and how Bazzite is growing, I am saying the fact that Bazzite is immutable has nothing to do with it’s growth.
Edit: Reading again, I realize you might not know that Fedora Atomic is the immutable base. 😉
The Bazzite team doesn’t control the wikipedia page, just the official documentation. Someone made up the term “immutable design”, that’s not a thing it’s just a container. There’s no need to confuse people just call it bazzite or a container. Atomic is a fedora brand name, it’s not a thing to classify things under.
As you can see from the comments in the thread all this does is confuse people.
Source: I work on bazzite
“Immutable”: A term to describe Linux operating systems that do not follow the traditional filesystem layout where every single file can be removed by the user with root privileges. It is more nuanced than this in the case of Bazzite, but is still considered “immutable” from the point of view of the extended Linux community. The Bazzite team would not describe Bazzite as an “immutable” operating system.
https://docs.bazzite.gg/General/terms/
I’m a big fan of Bazzite, but as stated in the docs, “immutable” is a term the community uses to describe it.
Education is the key to reducing confusion, not pretending a system architecture doesn’t exist or matter.
After reading this I’m confused about what immutable means
Bazzite contributor here, there’s no reason to care about this. This term just confuses people you can safely ignore it.
Pretend your running a live OS off a read-only USB, yet any changes (app installs, config changes, etc) you make are saved to the HD. A new version of the OS comes out, so you write a new ISO to your USB, and upon booting it, all you changes are applied on top.
This is a simplistic view of immutable distros, but thwy wrk more like snapshots. It allows for rollback. So you install v1, then v2 is a newer snapshot of the base OS, v3 is another, always building.
The catch is they often require apps to run under things like flatpak so you don’t have to alter the OS packages. Personally, I’m not a fan for a daily driver, but it’s great for distros like Bazzite.
Bazzite’s growth is not because it is immutable, Bazzite’s growth is because it offers gamers a straightforward onboarding process.
It offers a straightforward onboarding process because it’s image based. The model is part of the success.
👑 the goat is here
I am a container evangelist, I find excuses to convert my jobs into Kubernetes workloads, and I frequently use the likes of podman for one off apps/processes and development. I use Flatpak frequently to isolate dependencies for the likes of Steam and Heroic.
I really wanted to like Bazzite or Bluefin, but I can’t deal with the overhead from the rpm os-tree updates. I would frequently notice hitches for my use case (sunshine streaming), and the hoops I had to do to configure Nvidia drivers (for it to then not work as good as other distros) was tiresome.
I went back to Arch (EndeavourOS), and I improved sunshine performance and had a driver that worked with less fiddling.
I’m saying all this because, while I’m glad to see any Linux distro grow, I hope it starts delivering what it says on the tin eventually without compromises that I experienced. Markering on it being immutable and container focused is true, but I dont see the benefit (aside from more stability which as others pointed out, is already stable is most cases)?. Right now, its a simple to configure (assuming most defaults work for your setup) distro that is finding a growing niche amongst some users (obviously by the data shown). And thats good enough for now at least.
The removal of KDE Discover has me considering going back to plain Kinoite on my HTPC. I figure I can build a sysext with the handful of bazzite bits I actually use and keep the unbutchered plasma experience
Would you be willing to say more about what you know / experienced about the removal of Discover? Preferences included? I only noticed it recently, been away from things for a bit, and you sound like your brief info would probably be at least as fruitful as the reading I was gonna look for :)
the ublue project / bazzite decided to make their own flatpak first app store called Bazaar. Fair enough its their distro. However they created it with GTK4/Adwaita libraries, so its a Gnome native app and looks completely ugly on a KDE Plasma desktop. Also as a flatpak first app store it doesn’t update anything else on your machine like what discover is capable of (cant update ostree, knew stuff etc). This means you have to use the ujust terminal app to access updates, which I dont agree with.
I think technically you could layer it back in with rpm-ostree install kdediscover - however this pulls back a couple of hundred meg of plasma dependencies, which if you’re not aware, when you update your system would be redownloaded and reinstalled with each new ostree snapshot, slowing down the update process even further. I I tried doing it as a sysext (myrepo) but it
keeps segfaulting and I havent worked out the issueedit: I have fixed the segfault issue and readded the ostree backend. Sysexts are new experienmental alternative to package layering which hold a lot of potential (check out tim ravier’s development of them here https://travier.github.io/fedora-sysexts/)You don’t use the terminal to do updates, updates are automatic by default.
We also completely removed discovers ability to update OSTree. It’s never been present in a single build of Bazzite.
This is why I don’t pay attention to people that complain about toolkits. You don’t like the way it looks so you make up absolutely disingenuous points to argue about it.
I also said ublue is free to do what they want, why are you attacking me for suggesting I want to put something back the way it was? I never asked for your attention, I’m not pestering the developers about it, instead I attempted to author a fix for anyone who also is not a fan of the change.
Yes, I dont like a core system tool not being part of my desktop, I dont want my updates to fire via a timer, and I have updated my ostree via discover on my bazzite box. I understand a lot of your target audience does want those things, an appliance type experience - I even suggested 2 posts up that perhaps bazzite was no longer for me as the target audience.
I appologise for drawing your ire
edit: FYI I’m not some bad faith poster, having defended bazaar - Also my particular bazzite box has been rebased between Fedora and Aurora, probably accumulated some artifacts in the process, which may explain why my discover had not been previously hobbled. Have a good night
I also said ublue is free to do what they want
Thank the lord we have your permission
you don’t need my permission mate, I honestly don’t know why I have earned your derision??
There’s a toggle for the store in ujust command iirc
I couldnt see one - I also dont want to layer it, because it will pull in a couple of hundred megs of kde dependencies every time you update. I tried doing it as a sysext (myrepo) but it keeps segfaulting and I havent worked out the issue
Sysexts are something I’ve been meaning to get in to. Have you had much success in general with them?
Yes I use Kinoite as my work machine and I’ve used Tim Ravier’s sysext repo for adding libvirtd, distrobox, wireshark and vscode to that machine. I also authored my own that adds nmap, iperf, telnet, screen and a few other command line tools I make use of at work. I find this easier than juggling toolboxes for it
Only on Aurora, we don’t ship that.
Ah ok
Bazzite community really deserves tbe credit. Lots of work and great vibes all around!
