E: apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate. Please don’t be one of the 34 people that replied to tell me Linux is not ready.
Android has always been a fairly open platform, especially if you were deliberate about getting it that way, but we’ve seen in recent months an extremely rapid devolution of the Android ecosystem:
- The closing of development of an increasing number of components in AOSP.
- Samsung, Xiaomi and OnePlus have removed the option of bootloader unlocking on all of their devices. I suspect Google is not far behind.
- Google implementing Play Integrity API and encouraging developers to implement it, which prevents apps from the Google Play Store from being downloaded without a system-wide OS-level account login. Notably the EU’s own identity verification wallet requires this, in stark contrast to their own laws and policies, despite the protest of hundreds on Github.
- And finally, the mandatory implementation of developer verification across Android systems. Yes, if you’re running a 3rd-party OS like GOS you won’t be directly affected by this, but it will impact 99.9% of devices, and I foresee many open source developers just opting out of developing apps for Android entirely as a result. We’ve already seen SyncThing simply discontinue development for this reason, citing issues with Google Play Store. They’ve also repeatedly denied updates for NextCloud with no explanation, only restoring it after mass outcry. And we’ve already seen Google targeting any software intended to circumvent ads, labeling them in the system as “dangerous” and “untrusted”. This will most certainly carry into their new “verification” system.
Google once competed with Apple for customers. But in a world where Google walks away from the biggest antitrust trial since 1998 with yet another slap on the wrist, competition is dead, and Google is taking notes from Apple about what they can legally get away with.
Android as we know it is dead. And/or will be dead very soon. We need an open replacement.
E2: thank you to everyone stopping by from Hacker News, Reddit, etc. to check out the threadiverse. I hope you’ll stick around for a while. Check out https://phtn.app/ and the Voyager and Blorp apps for a nicer UI. Fuck Spez!
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What phones do you recommend for linux then?
apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate.
I would like to move away from Android and iOS. But I’m not sure it’s really feasible. Hell, I might even have to move fully to iOS, because that’s what the wife uses. That’s the challenge with Linux or alternative OSes on mobile. It goes against the purpose of the device - it needs to be able to interact with the people in your life.
Because I have Android and she has an iPhone, we can’t easily share headphones (her AirPods or my generic ones) or some of the other accessories. For instance, I don’t want a device without a 3.5mm jack, so none of my headphones work for her. About the only thing we can share is the USB-C cable, and it’s less efficient on my device. We have to use Google Maps to share location, the built-in functions don’t talk. We have to use regular SMS and calls or Discord to talk, because FaceTime and iMessage don’t have compatible Android software. I love her with all my heart - and frankly speaking she’s worth more to me than software advocacy.
That’s what causes ecosystem lock-in. As Sartre said, Hell is other people.
Like you, I value my relationships and by extension my mental health more than which messaging app I use.
I hate Meta with a passion and them acquiring Whatsapp is probably the most disappointing acquisition of all time to me, but I’m going to continue using it because my wife, family in Latin America, and world friends all use it. And being lonely and out of touch isn’t worth the satisfaction of knowing my data isn’t being scraped to me. Others in these threads always seems to disagree here, and they’re free to do that but it’s not a lifestyle I’m interested in.
I’m making changes where I can; I self host a server for my media, photos, files. I’m going to install Graphene on my phone soon. I’m interested in picking up a cheaper older phone to try a Linux mobile OS on. I have my phone auto connect to my pihole to block trackers when I’m out of the house, etc. But I know as soon as it’s something I have to inconvenience others with, it’s not going to work.
Pick your battles.
I might be a dick for pointing it out, but the willingness to switch tech ecosystems for a spouse should really go both ways
You’re not a dick for saying it. But switching and losing daily driven features isn’t really something I think is fair. And that’s why I would be the one to change. I’d probably just keep the apple device on hotspot mode and use the Android as a tablet and VOIP call/text device.
That’s the challenge with Linux or alternative OSes on mobile. It goes against the purpose of the device - it needs to be able to interact with the people in your life.
That’s not a “challenge” that linux can ever overcome. The only way to overcome that is to ask your wife to switch to a device that’s respectful of you and her and everyone else.
I find it extremely irritating that so many people see other devices and “well I can’t interact with them the way I want to so I’d better join them and contribute to the problems so I can also not interact with other people on free systems”.
Okay. Give me a Linux phone that works out of the box that suits the following dealbreakers:
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Compatibility with iMessage and FaceTime. This is essential because my wife, my MIL, and other family members all use it. I can’t be expected to change everyone over, I need to be compatible with the majority. I might be able to convert them over time, but it’s going to be gradual.
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Always-on location information sharing with location data pulled from both GPS & terrestrial sources.
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Full support for Bluetooth devices, especially the ANC function of AirPods or similar (oh, and support for my mother’s hearing aid app).
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OS-level support for telephony and SMS + MMS + RTC messaging. With software that has an instantly usable UI.
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A deep repository of trusted software with clear and easy UX that doesn’t require adjustment - it all needs to “just work”.
Those are the dealbreakers for me.
Always-on location information sharing with location data pulled from both GPS & terrestrial sources.
Wait, aren’t we on here due to privacy?
Privacy is relative. I need my wife to know where I am and vice-versa.
Interesting, you must have quite the mobile work or something.
She does. And I can’t drive, so I take mass transit, which makes her worry for my safety.
Dang, yeah, that makes sense!
Yes, thank you for laying out a great roadmap for the future.
That’s the issue. It’s a great set of goals, but I need to be able to make my wife happy today. Long-term plans for the future are all well and good, but we live in the present. So at the moment, Android is the most open compromise I can make.
Wait make ur wife happy because of these devices? That insane how u guys were living 20 years ago let not pretend that this devices bring something really important that was not possible to do in old way in the past ,they gave just some alternative way to do stuff including all ur things u said.I am so glad that my family don’t understand anything in tech in such things and using just usual phone calls and for video they using something like telegram
We were teenagers 20 years ago, is how.
Listen, if you want to continue to contribute value to companies that want to fuck you at every turn because you can’t be bothered to find other ways to overcome minor inconveniences, that’s your prerogative. You’re just like most people.
Compatibility with iMessage and FaceTime. This is essential because my wife, my MIL, and other family members all use it.
Once again, this is never going to happen. And this is NOT essential. To anyone. Not even a little bit. Ask your family members to use a different platform. There are HUNDREDS of messaging apps that all do the same fucking thing but aren’t behind Apple’s Walled Garden. If they can’t be bothered, then it must not be important. I ask my friends and family to message me on Signal and most of them don’t have a problem with it.
True, there are many ways to make video calls these days that already work on Linux.
Are any of them as user-friendly and accessible as FaceTime? The people in my life (myself included most days) value good UX over technical genius.
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Unfortunately there’s a lot(!) to do to make Linux enjoyable on a phone. I bought a Pinephone some years ago. And in addition to the slow hardware, the entire software/desktop experience isn’t great. While everyone else has instant messengers, Linux doesn’t have connected standby and emails and messages just don’t arrive unless the screen is on. It wastes quite some power, and there are a bazillion small little quirks and annoyances and it’s barely usable if compared to a regular smartphone. I think someone needs to invest quite some more time and money until this becomes a thing. I mean don’t get me wrong, Linux and the low-level system is awesome. And it’s brilliant on any server/laptop/desktop computer. It’s just that there’s so many things missing for a proper phone experience. And it’s not just mildly inconvenient, but like people expect instant messages to be delivered…
How cool would it be to out of nowhere see Valve come out with a SteamPhone based on Arch which does everything you ever hoped for and runs on high quality hardware including all the features that others took away (colour alert pixel, 3,5mm jack, replaceable battery), complete with dual boot or a containerised Android-mode for running apps that would never work like banking or eID. Would buy instantly.
It seems like you read the title as “everyone needs to switch to Linux mobile right now” but that’s not what it says.
The point is, as you said, there’s a lot of work that needs to be done, and that work is more important now than ever.
So which is the best project to back?
I dunno! It will really require the participation of the entire community.
Gnome has been making great progress on the graphical front.
Notifications should be pretty simple, and probably should be provided by hardware manufacturers. But the support will need to be implemented into the apps that need them. That can potentially also fix the battery issue.
PostmarketOS I think is probably the most mature Linux mobile package currently but I’m no expert on the subject.
I’d argue that Ubuntu Touch and Sailfish are the most mature offerings. Both OSs are (or at least were at some point) developed as commercially viable alternatives to the duopoly. That gives them a headstart in terms of apps and overall pollish.
The postmarket shells are catching up, but you still get instructions like “drag and drop a file from your file manager to open it”, which doesn’t work on a phone. Phone UX still seems like an afterthought in many cases.
Postmarket OS is a desktop Linux system, but for phones. UT and Sailfish on the other hand are mobile OSs, that happen to use much of the same tech as desktop Linux. They are therefore much closer to the duopoly (for bettet or for worse).
Great, thanks! The next step would be to figure out if either is compatible with Syncthing and GPS-guided nav…
Woohoo!! Now I can’t decide between the two…
Sure. It’s just that the timeframe is a bit disheartening. To me… so all of this is highly subjective. We had the Nokia N900 in like 2009. And I was expecting to live the full Linux experience within a few years and those things to become a bit more affordable. And today it’s almost 16 years later and it doesn’t feel like we’ve come substantially closer. More recently we had Librem and Pine64 put some effort and publicity into it, and that’s also been 5 years. The mobile/touch desktops made some good progress. PostmarketOS is kind of nice. But there are entire layers missing like the app framework in Android which enables such app lifecycles, connected standby… Sandboxing and a fine-granular permission system for proprietary apps (or just modern mainstream usage) is kind of in its infancy. And I’m not even sure if everyone is going to use Flatpak for everything. And all of those missing things are huge undertakings.
So I’m not sure when to expect such an every-day phone… Maybe in 2030 or 2035? But that’s kind of late if the headline is “more important now, than ever”. Because all the while Google is moving more and more stuff from AOSP into their proprietary Play services and it’s getting uncomfortable for me. We have a deadline with the Google messes with the allowed apps on a phone starting 2027. And my life includes more and more mandatory apps, or I have to forfeit taking part in society, culture, convenience or riding a train… This year, Google started giving the GrapheneOS devs a hard time… Now they’re making it even more complicated.
So of course not everyone has to use it, and I’m first of all concerned with my own wellbeing. But I really don’t see a solution in the near future which is going to address the important issues if today and the next few years. So I’m a bit unsure if a Linux phone will come around and help me before it’s too late, or if I need to find other ways to deal with it.
True but I also never even considered it before because honestly open source Android works really great on most devices already. Now that that’s all basically disappearing, hopefully more people will be more dedicated to creating an alternative.
Can you help me understand why Linux phones are the answer rather than a community maintained android fork?
Android is already fully featured and has a solid ecosystem so it’s usable now, not in 5-10 years with less of a need for adjustment for the people who want to switch.
Basically, why take several steps backwards and start from scratch?
Because a community maintained fork wont solve the problems in the OP?
I strongly disagree with this comment. I’ll answer your numbered points from the original post one by one with my perspective:
- Development would happen completely in the open, since its community driven
- A community android fork wouldn’t directly solve the issue of manufacturer locked bootloaders, but neither would Linux mobile
- I originally messed up on this bullet point, but this is the correction - the play integrity API would be unusable on both community driven Android and Linux mobile
- Developer verification will not apply to devices running an OS that isn’t Google certified, which a community maintained android fork would not be
Do you disagree with any of these? Would love to hear your thoughts
Wow. Ok.
Development would happen completely in the open, since its community driven
All “community driven forks” are based on Google’s AOSP. None of them have the resources to develop this stuff from the ground up.
A community android fork wouldn’t directly solve the issue of manufacturer locked bootloaders, but neither would Linux mobile
No but someone would sell Linux devices if they were commercially viable, and no one would buy a Linux device with a locked bootloader.
the play integrity API would be unusable on both community driven Android and Linux mobile
You wouldn’t need it on Linux mobile because…it’s not Android.
Developer verification will not apply to devices running an OS that isn’t Google certified
I already addressed this in OP.
comparison is the thief of joy and it’s unrealistic to expect a product of grass roots community effort to compare to a product that benefits from deep pockets that can afford the finest talent and a considerably long head start.
I’m not sure. A phone is kind of a tool, same for a computer. Ideally we weigh our options (aka compare them) and pick which suits us best. And this grass roots effort isn’t doing a half-assed job. I have almost everything available. I can do regular tasks, edit videos, do computer aided design, do heavy database stuff, run the bookkeeping for an entire mid-sized company, a server farm or almost anything I like with Free Software and Linux. I don’t think a phone is fundamentally different and I kind of have the same high expectations for that niche. We’re already doing great with lots of other things, both more niche and more ordinary stuff. And oftentimes it does not include money from tech giants.
My next phone will run Linux, even if it is inconvenient.
As soon as this phone is paid off, I’ll be changing from Google Fi as well. Which sucks because it’s hella cheap.
Mint and US Mobile are both good alternatives to Fi. US Mobile is a bit more flexible since you can use any of the major US carriers.
As soon as this phone is paid off
What? People finance phones? 🤣
I don’t but it doesn’t mean I’m better than other people who do
Yes, some of us have good credit.
You can’t sideload in Linux.
On linux it’s just called running an executable
Edit: As a less snarky answer, you can run Android apps natively on linux by installing Android OS in a container using something like
AnboxWaydroid.
I switched from Google Fi to the T- Mobile MI30TI plan (30GB/month, $10/month, data-only) with JMP.Chat VOIP and couldn’t be happier
Worth noting that some services will reject VoIP phone numbers.
JMP also explicitly states that it doesn’t work for emergency calls.
100% agree. It’s worth testing with a new number first before porting your current number to JMP.Chat
Do you need a phone plan at all for emergency calling? It’s required for all carriers to take 911 calls in Canada.
That’s a good question. You don’t need a phone plan but I think you do still need some way to communicate with the towers. If you do like jevans (data plan only), I suspect there will be no calling functionality at all. Emergency or otherwise. But I could be wrong. Take out your SIM card and call 911 and let me know haha.
It works in Canada without a SIM. I know because my son did it on his “wifi-only” tablet.
I’ll have to look into it. 30GB isn’t bad at all. I think I have unlimited now with text and phone for only like $10 more a month. I’d have to look, it’s been a while since i’ve dealt with it.
What options are you looking into as far as a Fi replacement? I’m also on Fi and want to ditch them, and the Pixel soon.
I’m on Mint.
T-Mobile acquired them, per the usual bullshit, but I get 15GB a month with unlimited talk and text for “$20” a month. The catch is that you pay yearly in bulk for that price. Had it a year and change. Been solid.
I’m likely going to go to t-mobile as they’re cheap from what I understand and they make up a big part of the network that google leases, along with (i think) US Cellular, or something similar.
That said, I’ve got about a year to decide, unless someone decides to hire me and then I can pay my phone off early.
Good luck! Hope you get hired soon.
thanks! me too lol
go w an mvno; they’re usually cheaper and it rob the carriers of profit.
and the carriers deserve it for blacklisting chinese smartphones from their networks in collusion with the us gov’t in order to prevent chinese tech from entering the us like they’re doing with EV’s and solar panels using tariffs.
As someone dailying a Linux phone, I will say that there were no issues getting it to work on T-Mobile. The only thing I did was manually enter the APN details, but that was an OS thing.
From what I have seen on forums Verizon won’t let you at all, and AT&T might take a bit of work to get them to whitelist the IMEI on their network.
at&t collects any and all data they can and sells it directly to law enforcment and the government btw. im pretty sure they all sell your data, but at&t has illegal deals with the government
My family just switched from T-Mobile, as they’ve been jacking up prices lately, and without good reason, considering other carriers have better reception anyway.
What’d you switch to?
apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate.I switched to Visible Wireless for now.
They’re asking what provider you switched to, not what phone.
Duh, thank you. Photon makes it hard to see context now.
I like us mobile alot. Well priced too
I’m with you, I’ve switched all my computers to Linux for similar reasons. I bought an android phone recently and put Linux on that, although still some things to iron out such as sound and microphone input but it’s working well otherwise. Looking forward to when I can ditch my iPhone.
I’ve switched as well but didn’t realize you could put Linux on an android device. Is it a specific distro and can you throw it on an old android tablet?
There are several distros. You do need to ensure (as listed in the OP) that your bootloader is unlockable (listed as “OEM unlock” in Android).
- SailfishOS
- Ubuntu Touch
- Mobian
- PostmarketOS
- Manjaro ARM
Is it true that the top 2 in your list have the most features?
Interesting. I’ve seen Sailfish mentioned before, I’ll look into it. I’ve got a couple old tablets to mess around with, seems like a fun project. Thanks for the info!
Take a look into PostMarketOS, they are the bleeding edge for Linux mobile development. You can search on their wiki if your phone is supported.
The other solutions listed might be more turn key but not close to mainline Linux. (Custom kernel, etc)
Wow, surprised to see the old Samsung Galaxy S3 on there. Looks like I’ve got a project coming up
They don’t seem to have any supported devices apart from community contributions?
“These are the most supported devices, maintained by at least 2 people and have the functions you expect from the device running its normal OS, such as calling on a phone, working audio, and a functional UI. Besides QEMU devices, this is currently empty.”Yeah I wasn’t kidding about bleeding edge. It’s a double edged sword. You get more compatibility across a wide range of devices but it might not be 100% polished, yet.
To be fair, as most things in Linux, they are community developed. The community supported devices are supported by people who are taking their personal time to develop Linux to support these devices. You can view each individual device in the wiki to see how much support they have.
It’s all what you’re comfortable with, I still daily drive my iPhone as I need a very reliable device for my work. But I definitely rock my Linux phone when I can.
I think they are very device specific. Like only a handful of specific phones have builds for these OS.
same. There is one windows computer still in this house and it’s unplugged. Everything else is Linux, Android, or FreeBSD based.
what phone and os do you have? im currently shopping and have always been on android; im looking for recommendations on both phones and os <3
I have the Nothing Phone 1, running my fork of Mobile NixOS. I bought it because I wanted a bit of a challenge to get it running Linux and it’s relatively newer then other better supported Linux phones. I don’t recommend it for anyone who is new to Linux.
If you’re relatively new to Linux and want something that’s more compatible, I recommend looking at the OnePlus 6 or 6T. They have pretty good support for multiple different distros.
The main problem is that mobile OS is simply not useful without banking or government apps and they won’t ever appear on FOSS systems because giving control to user is exactly the opposite of what’s in their interest.
Which is an odd take as when I statted using “smart phones” not a singke.one supported apps from banks or government,.yet here we arw.
@vermaterc @Ulrich It depends on what you want your phone to do
Me? Encrypted calls & texts
Banking apps… Banks are moving towards digital currency, so you need to plan ahead
Government apps… O well
I don’t understand why people need banking apps on their phone. I only ever access my banking info from the PC…
2fa with a banking app, a lot of banks work that way
That’s insane. They don’t have TOTP? Or Passkeys? Or (God forbid) SMS or email verification? The only 2FA option is using their shitty app? I think I’d rather switch banks…
None of my banks (a couple French and Belgian ones) seem to support anything but auth via app. Can’t log in on my computer without my phone.
I know Credit Mutuel can provide you a physical card with a bunch of codes of which one is selected at random at auth time
Had family use it because they had a Huawei phoneInteresting! Maybe it’s worth switching banks, at least once I get the courage to move to Linux mobile.
It became hard to do that in my country. I changed banks twice in a year because they became shit but even the third one uses its app as 2fa. At least it is a better bank…
Vancity credit union uses standard TOTP. But RBC uses their stupid app where I live.
If it is what the user wants, then it is a factor for adoption. It is a hard sell to say “yes it can only perform half the stuff you usually do with a phone, but you don’t need that anyways”. It comes across as condescending, too.
My intent is not to be condescending. It is to make people aware of the fact that they have a choice: They can choose to subject themselves to increasingly-closed and exploitative platforms, or they can choose the extremely minor (I would argue non) inconvenience of using the browser or another computer to access their banking information.
and you can do it from your phone too using a browser other than android-chrome or ios-safari.
In Sweden many parts of society requires an app called BankID. We authenticate getting mail packages, sign contracts, book a time in health care, etc with this app. It’s needed everywhere. Buying a bus ticket. A phone without this app is not sufficient to function in swedish society.
Interesting. I’m an online notary. I sign papers with essentially an encrypted certificate from my Linux PC.
Sounds a bit dystopian
A little bit yes, since the BankID is owned by private companies. There are those who are working on a free software version and some people think that the government should have an official authentication app free from private interests. But it’s been hard to make people aware and care about these issues. It’s like the xkcd worlds smallest open source violin. At the same time, many things that relate to proving that I am me has become very convenient in this society. For example I moved to a new apartment and they just sent a link to the contract and I signed it with the app and that was that, I did my taxes by just checking that the info they had was correct and signed it on my phone, etc.
Aren’t you able to get a dongle for 2fa like in Denmark? We have MitID but you can easily get a dongle so you don’t need a phone
Yes, true. But then you need to carry an extra device. I know it’s just inconvenience.
Many cheaper online banks rely on their mobile app. Your debit card will not work wirhout an in-app confirmation. There’s no web interface (“not secure enough”).
Can I switch banks and make my life less convenient? Sure. Would I do it just to stick it to google? No.
it’s not really a need, it’s more an imposition. we’re forced to do everything via the app
Convenience and the ability to back outside the comforts of my own home.
In my country, for all the banks I use, I need to have an app on my phone to access their website with my Linux computer.
So a Linux phone would need to provide this as I can’t be without access to my accounts.
I need to have an app on my phone to access their website with my Linux computer
Wat.
thats pretty common, in my country as well.
like a two factor authentication. but without TOTP. but with a proprietary app by the bank provided.
Ohhh right. Yeah that’s weird. Like I said elsewhere, I would find a new bank if I had that problem.
Yeah it’s part of the 2 factors authentification process.
Back in the days you received some card reader generating a code, but that ain’t the case anymore…
So Linux would need to have a native version of these apps or a way to efficiently emulate Android or iOS.
Those card readers are called TOTP and we can do that with apps now. Not like the specific app in question but just like a standard password manager that stores all your TOTPs.
I didn’t know this. But I guess the bank has to allow it.
Last time I checked my banks were only allowing you to do such things through an app or at the bank (which is far from my village).
I had nothing but problems with banking apps. Can’t do anything if location is off, or it doesn’t like your IP, or if it thinks you have rooting software installed. And if it doesn’t work right, no one at the bank knows how to help. I just stopped using them, eventually.
If only banks could figure out how security works…
Send me back to the 90s with the flip phone. Old Nokia with a changeable battery, no malicious firmware that has spyware built in. It’s just a phone.
That’s just all electronics outside of Linux at this point.
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Yep, I tried going the dumbphone route and lasted about a month. I travel a fair bit for work, and it’s almost impossible now without a smartphone.
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I get by alright without a smart phone. Over the years I’ve seen more and more “just scan this QR code to do such-and-such”, and I ignore them. I think you’re right that it is a lot of added friction compared to using a phone. A lot of stuff is instantly at your fingertips with your phone.
But to be honest, I really truly think that a bit of friction is a good thing. Without it, we just slide helplessly into oblivion. Or, less metaphorically speaking, the friction turns an automatic decision into a deliberate one. The friction pushes people to think about their actions and choices a little bit. And that’s generally a good thing - even if its a little bit harder.
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no malicious firmware that has spyware built in.
Sure about that?
spyware in a 90s phone ? Where it was even a miracle to be able to connect to Internet ? Yeah, they were able to pinpoint your position using the cell towers (which were less than today so not that precise) and the telecom know who and when you were calling but other than that…
Trust devices that are open and run open firmwares not old devices
True but I was only pointing out that what is a problem in modern smartphone was not a problem in older dumb phone since they lack the functionalities (and the supporting infrastructure)
You are assuming it wasn’t a problem back then
It is a little difficult to spy on phone owner (except knowing where the phone is located) when everything you have is SMS and a memory measured in Kb, leaving aside that every phone had its own firmware incompatible with everyone else.
Of course telecom companies always know where you were and who you call, like today, but at most they can tap and read the SMS.For context, GPRS was rolled out around 2001, before that you basically have not any data connection if not plugging to the phone an external modem.
I really want one but I dont think I can live with it daily. Too much shit relies on phones now. Linux is perfect for my desktop and I never need windows, but I dont think a linux phone is gonna work for my banking or investment apps
apparently it needs to be said that I am not suggesting you switch to Linux on your phone today; just that development needs to accelerate.
Banks allow me to login via their web interface, send money to a BSB + Account Number or even a PayID (email / phone number) but using their app to do just the same is too far?
It’s total rubbish, honestly I’ve resurrected my OG ridge wallet and am planning on installing Graphene on my P7P to skirt the phone payment trap.
I was one of the few in Australia to test Google wallet (thanks for the free cash google) and thought it was the bees knees. It’s a fucking long con and fuck I feel dumb for falling into it.
Worst still my drivers licence is a phone app, so are my work certificates and probably a bunch of other shit that I’ll only realize later.
I guess fuck around and find out shows its ugly face eventually.
Phone apps are a pet peeve of mine. Most apps are just websites wrapped up in the ASAR archive format. Instead of spending all this extra money to build an app, just make your original website responsive.
I switched back to banking at a branch years ago, and I love it. Money gets into my account so much faster when I deposit a check at a bank vs online.
Ahh we don’t really use cheques here in Aus. Payments being electronic doesn’t worry me, pay lands in my account the same day it’s processed, sometimes the following day if the accountants miss the deadline.
Sending someone money is generally instant using PayID, without fees too.
I use neobanks (no physical branches) so as long as their web interface works well enough for me, and I can use my own 2FA (not SMS based) ill be happy as a pig in mud.
Just wait and see if the climate turns to no physical cards in the next 5 - 10 years…
That sounds nice. Banking in the US is slow. Do you have something like shared ATMs for physical currency deposits, or is that also not used anymore?I can’t imagine us going no-card, but it sounds like your system is already most of the way there.
Not around here but the major banks in my area still allow for note / change deposits into accounts. They even have coin hoppers in some still, great for cleaning out the glovebox / centre console.
Been a while since I’ve used one as I generally take my change into work and convert it into notes there :D
It’s crazy to see the downturn in cash going through pubs, I’ve been in the industry for 20 years and remember when I’d started most transactions were physical money, these days on a busy night I’ll count the 7 tills we have and maybe end up with 3k in cash takings. (not including the pokies for obvious reasons).
Definitely going to be trying for some kind of linux phone for my next one.
Debating biting the bullet on the ~$800 cost of a fairphone.
i know it is still google, but i just started searching ebay for a used pixel 9 - looks like they are around $400-500 (pixel 10 came out last month). i figure getting graphene os on one of these may be an inexpensive path forward… still looking for good options, tho.
i’ll have to check out fairphone. i remember something about them not being available in the US, but that may be old news.
There’s a distributor, Murena, selling the Fairphone 4 and Fairphone 6 in the U.S. now. The Fairphone isn’t fully usable with Linux yet, though. Calls, camera, and GPS all still apparently aren’t working 100% with postmarket OS. I’m not aware of any other distribution that does any better. https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Category:Fairphone
Ubuntu Touch supports the FP4 & FP5 quite well: https://devices.ubuntu-touch.io/
Oh nice! That is very encouraging.
oof, no wifi is kind of a dealbreaker for me; i have a home server and really dont want to have to be VPN’d into my home all the time :(
looks like fairphone 6 doesnt have much support on postmarket yet, but i’ll keep an eye on it - ty <3
Yeah, I don’t think the Fairphone 6 is quite ready. In fact, since none of the previous Fairphone models ever got to full Linux usability, I don’t really expect it to happen.
I think the best option – and really the only option – right now is the Furilabs FLX1. I’m planning on getting one soon.
I want one, too, as soon as the second batch is available. I hope there are some left after all the pre-orders are sent out.
I was looking into Fairphone and got sketched out, they do not really seem particularly trustworthy or competent.
For example: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-standard-privacysecurity-patches-and-protections-arent-private
Oof
Buy Nothing Phones… Un-lockable bootloader without need to even ask for it, very lite and clean AOSP derivate android flavour.
Got a link? Buy Nothing is a national upcycling program in the US, haha.
There you go:
Oh, I thought the phrase here was “Buy Nothing.”
That doesn’t solve any of the problems I listed.
It does. Unlock bootliader, flash lineage or just uninstall all Google apps and services.
Sure doesn’t.
I imagine building on existing AOSP project like GrapheneOS or LineageOS would be the easiest path forward. There is already a decent ecosystem of open source apps available. You’d still need to figure out what to do with proprietary apps like Slack that regular people might need for day to day use.
Ultimately, the problem lies in lack of a hardware vendor willing to take make open phones that are geared towards running a custom OS on without having to jailbreak them. I really think the only way this can happen is if there was a vendor that focuses on providing a full stack open source system for mobile. Maybe a company like Liberux or even Framework will succeed at doing something like that at some point.
Liberux is using waydroid to add compatibility from what I’ve seen, so that may be the way forward where you have a base Linux system, and then a layer for running Android apps on top of it.
I agree. As it stands, there is no immediate problem with buying a vendor unlockable phone for LineageOS or GrapheneOS. It does seem like Google is slowly closing the doors to FOSS, so the future could require an AOSP fork. But it also might not. We don’t really know for sure. As long as LineageOS and GrapheneOS exist and have developers, we have nothing to sorry about.
If, in the future, all hardware manufacturers fail us, I have used Waydroid on an old Thinkpad, and it is fantastic. And, more in the Linux ecosystem is Android Translation Layer which translates Android syscalls into Linux syscalls. It is buggy, but I could see it getting better in the future.
Anyway, I’m not really worried. There are still a lot of paths forward, and FOSS advocates are persistent.
Yeah, the foundation exists and it’s just going to be a question of building out on top of it. It’s also worth noting that the app ecosystem outside google is starting to become fairly complete as well. I find that in practice I only use a handful of apps such as email client, messenger, music player, weather app, a browser, a maps app, and a calendar. That accounts for most of what I do on my phone day to day, and there are mature open source options for all of these apps.
My thinking too. I don’t think we need a Linux phone from stracht but fork android and make it work without the play service. It’s the hardware manufacturers that are the problem.
I’m about a tech zero skill but I am at Lemmy for THIS news. Thank you for resisting complete shitification hegemony. Resist!
My next phone is definitely going to be a Linux phone. I don’t care if it’s ready. I’m ready.
My feelings on point.
Same here.
Are there any Linux mobile OSs that do not use a compatibility layer with Android underneath it?
I tried Ubuntu Touch a couple of years ago and couldn’t get mobile data working with UK provider but apart from that it was very cool.
Yes, Ubuntu Touch is one of them. I listed more elsewhere.
There are already some very cool-looking Linux cyberdecks.
What does this have to do with this discussion?
Cyberdecks are 1) pocketable 2) computing devices 3) often wireless, and 4) run Linux.
That’s what people want from phones, so I figured it was a valid contribution to the discussion.
I guess not…
That does not look remotely pocketable…
Yes it does.
Oh ok, sorry
Not relevant to this thread. However, I didn’t know what a cyberdeck was and there are indeed some very cool-looking ones. :)
There’s still hope with AOSP. I could see something coming out of that before a Linux platform is ready.
My first thought was that a hard-fork of AOSP would be a much better solution than a Linux phone. But when you have locked down hardware, it doesn’t matter, because you simply can’t install it.
I still think a community fork of AOSP would be more efficient than Linux mobile.
Like what?
Like a fully open source Android ROM.
That wouldn’t solve 2, 3, or 4.
for 4 Linux would also kind have the same problem as a 3rd party ROM, (almost) no one is making mobile apps for Linux
Sure, there are a lot of desktop apps, but most don’t have a mobile UI in mind
Linux has all kinds of problems but none of them are fundamental the same way that Android is.
You’re saying that an Android without any Google/Samsung/Xiaomi/OnePlus interference wouldn’t solve the problems introduced by Google/Samsung/Xiaomi/OnePlus?
No that’s not what I said. I’m saying there is no Android without Google.
I thought they already gutted much of AOSP. Like removing the dialer or contacts and stuff.
