Google has been trying to make Android proprietary for a few years now, and that’s not news, as many AOSP default apps have been abandoned over time in favor of proprietary Google ones. This was never a huge problem for me, as you can still use those apps without network access or use open source alternatives like Fossify on a custom ROM.
However, the situation is quickly getting worse, now that Google is actively trying to prevent the development of custom ROMs and taking a page from Apple’s book by forcing developers to beg them for permission to release apps on the Android platform, even outside of the Play Store - giving Google full control.
Is there still any hope left for privacy respecting Android ROMs? What do you think will happen next? And what would be your suggestions for those looking for a phone in 2025?
If you have a different perspective on the situation, also please comment below!
I’ll be going with Fairphone 6 + /e/os as my next phone most likely. Seems like a very decent path forward.
The EU. That’s where my hope lies.
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I live in EU, and that shit drives me nuts.
Stop spying on your citizens!
Denmark is.
The “EU” is a set of instances with multiple backgrounds and interests. Multiple bodies can work in totally different directions.
That was then, now they are very pro FANGS and removing all barriers because they are afraid of tariffs and want the US to keep selling them weapons for Ukraine.
What do you think will happen next?
Development of Linux on mobile will ramp up.
EU or similar wrecking Google over being monopolistic would be nice but unlikely.
Same but targeting phone manufacturers.From the EU to wreck Google e-Foundation, with advantage substituting GMail, GDocs and GDrive >Murena Workspace, Murena Phones (FairPhone) with /e/OS by default, Murena is OpenSource (GitLab) selfhostable or Freemium if not, including Murena Cloud., All 100% de-googled and encrypted, no knowledge. The EU offers enough alternatives, you only have to use these.
i was going to do this until i discovered that their non-pixel devices have poor network coverage in the united states.
also doesn’t /e/os has the same problems that other projects like grapheneos has when it comes to google locking down android?
Yes, FairPhone is currently somewhat bullied by the traditional companies. I don’t think that /e/OS will have problems with Google, it’s like also Linage OS, a fork of Android (FOSS) with the only difference that all refereences and APIs of Google are gutted and out of it’s influence. It’s a pure Android code as is and as such 100% compatible with all Android apps, but these don’t depend on to be approved by Google like those for the normal stock Android.
these don’t depend on to be approved by Google like those for the normal stock Android.
Didn’t Google recently require all app developers to register w them?
In an FOSS which is free to use, to fork and modify for everyone? The only copyright that Google has over Android made, that the fork can’t be called Android nor use it’s logo, because this the forks are called /e(OS and LinageOS with different logos. Naturally Google has the right to select Android devs and those which develope apps for Google play, but this isn’t aplicable to the mencioned and other forks, these are out of the reach of Google, except if they still contain certain APIs from Google or using apps from Google Play, not the case in the mencioned forks. It’s like with Chromium, there are forks which simply patch their logo on it and those which use de-googled forks (Brave (?), Vivaldi, de-googled Chromium and also EDGE (with it’s own tracking APIs from M$) )which are not phoning home to Google.
absolutely ture in a purely foss environment; but we’re talking about android phones whose manufacturers are locking down the bootloaders in lock step with google’s efforts to lock down android.
both lineageos and e/os/ are going to be difficult to maintain going forward without projects like murena making their own phones.
We need the EU to regulate Banking and Payment apps to not rely on Google apis first and mandate that they have to be available in open app stores or as apk.
They don’t even do that with their own apps.
Maybe they can regulate themselves first as a start then. They already use Matrix, so it’s not like they are completely lost regarding IT Security and FOSS.
They don’t seem to care about Apple cut for other app stores why would they care about this.
Cause it’s a European / national security concern in the long run.
Right now the EU regulation is pushing banks to require more of Google or Apple because it’s unclear and banks won’t take a chance of getting fined.
Among the requirements are: ensure the device and the OS were not “altered”. What does that mean exactly? Answer: [crickets].
But that’s why many banks just go with the Google Play Integrity API.
Even just forcing them to stop blocking access on the website when they detect a phone would be nice.
I have to enable desktop mode on ironfox since ~2 years ago for my bank. Then the scaling is terrible and its hard to click buttons
Exactly. It’s like we’ve somehow been told that we must support only the main 2 OSs and nothing else.
It’s true. There’s a fair few things with my bank I can only do with the app - they shut the web browser interface down
Development of Linux on mobile will ramp up
0,1% of Android users care enough about privacy or foss to switch to Linux if Ndroid is enshittified too much.
This may not seem like a lot, but that is (I estimate) 10 times more than the current number of people daily driving Linux on their phones.
No, not really I suppose
I hope so. But I’m gonna be real grumpy about it when I can’t tap to pay for shit anymore because all of the standardized payment apps will only work on signed Google and Apple devices.
I thought tap to pay was already restricted like that
It is, but I’m fine with using stock Samsung in exchange for near complete control of my own device. They take away side loading and I’m out of here.
What about a Murena phone such as the Fairphone 6 ? Is /e/os impacted?
Any device and OS that uses standard google play services (and therefore its device integrity system) will be restricted from now on. So either go with AOSP+microG or just plain AOSP like lineage os.
e/os is lineage+microG so shouldnt be affected. Lots of apps like banking stuff are starting to prevent their apps from running on on google certified devices however. You will have to test case by case.
Fairphone 6, especially with /e/os is not an option atm from a security standpoint. But then again, no phone is except iPhones and Pixels (and more recent Samsung phones).
Fairphone 6 does not keep up with standard Android privacy/security patches and has no secure element to provide working disk encryption for typical users not using a strong password, among other flaws.
Regarding privacy, Murena is shilling their own proprietary Apps as alternatives to Google.
/e/OS includes numerous non-private apps and services. The Murena voice-to-text service included in /e/OS even sends user speech data to OpenAI with no local option compared to Apple and Google both offering offline speech-to-text support via local models which users can make sure is always used:
https://community.e.foundation/t/voice-to-text-feature-using-open-ai/70509
Taken from the Graphene OS forum
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GrapheneOS is not developed by a single individual. GrapheneOS has a team of around 10 full-time developers. They are not on bad terms with all other OSes, they say positive things about iOS regularly. They were also on positive terms with DivestOS before it was discontinued also mainly because it was being harassed by the same groups GrapheneOS is being harassed by.
The founder of GrapheneOS, to person you are referring to, is not mentally unstable. You are making this statement without any basis. You do not have access to their medical file. What you are saying is hugely inapprioriate and the behavior of a high school bully. Even if it were true (it isn’t), you are being an ableist, which just makes you a mean person.
GrapheneOS only runs on Google phones currently because only Pixels are able to meet the hardware requirmeents. The hardware requirements aren’t a very high bar, other OEMs just don’t prioritize security. GrapheneOS in active talks with a major Android OEM right now in order to help them meet the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. They are very optimistic about how that is going.
mentally unstable individual
Got any links on that?
Edit: nvm, found out about Daniel Micay being difficult to communicate with on the one hand and his history of being harassed and swatted on the other.
while only running that OS on… checks notes… Google’s phones…
They obviously don’t do that to please Google.
There is a lot of misinformation and harassment material circulating online about Daniel Micay. Notice that they are the victim of extensive online bullying which has spread all the way onto KiwiFarms. Would suggest not consuming that content because it won’t give you an accurate depiction at all.
I’m a community member of GrapheneOS and I’ve not had any bad experiences with the GrapheneOS team or Daniel Micay specifically. They maybe communicate a bit more directly than some other people do but they are not being toxic or aggressive at all. I’ve found them to be patient and understanding.
Note that the thing many people describe as “toxic behavior” refers to posts made by GrapheneOS social media accounts in response to harassment. Defending yourself against harassment is not toxic. It might not look good in isolation becuase the quality of those conversations often degrades very quickly, which will have an impact on the GrapheneOS responses, but you have to look at those messages in context.
the frequency to which you keep hearing the phrase “mentally unstable” is the clearest sign that people are parroting a talking point that’s fueled by an agenda somewhere.
The guy was an asshole and had to step away from GrapheneOS.
They didn’t step away from GrapheneOS. They are the founder and were the lead developer. They only stepped away from the lead developer role because they couldn’t take the harassment anymore. They are now ex-lead developer but are still project member. They haven’t left the project and will not leave the project. They will not cave for harassers and bullies.
What did he do?
You’ve got to be kidding me, have you seen the Mastodon account of GrapheneOS? There is no haressnent towards them, the only ones doing the haressnent are GrapheneOS.
They are either defending themselves against personal attacks / harassment (which was also present in this thread before moderation intervention) or correcting unintentional misinformation about GrapheneOS features. That misinformation is often made by drawing a wrong comparison between GrapheneOS and other OSes. Correcting that isn’t harassment, just like defending yourself against personal attacks isn’t harassment.
They obviously don’t do that to please Google.
I know, it’s supposedly 'cos they’re the only good phones, which is a kinda weird take considering the diversity of devices out there but i’m not into the gory details.
You can just read the requirements section on the FAQ page of their website. It explains the reasoning. It’s all based on technical reasons: https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-support
There are no phones with working encryption (a must imho and a lot of others) except the ones I listed in my initial comment. iPhones are no option because they are not unlockable. Samsung recently announced they will remove the option to unlock the bootloader as well. They also have a very broad and everchanging lineup of phones.
Google Pixel has been more of a hardware and software reference to developers than a Phone people would usually buy up until the redesign with the Pixel 6. There are so many hardware and software features that make it the perfect device to develop against (up until the recent events lol).
I’d recommend you to read their own documentation on this topic.
They were a good device to develop against, at least until they started catching fire for multiple generations.
They had to degrade the 4A, a couple of 6As burst into flames. My mom has a 7, and it was overheating like mad, and seemed like it was possibly going to burst into flames. I won’t trust a Google device at least for several years after they’ve fixed these battery issues.
The Pixel 1 and the Pixel 2 were great. I even had the Pixel 3a, and it was a decent device. But since then, I’ve not trusted Google. Not recently.
Plain burner flip phone and a wifi only Linux device that connects to a hotspot. F google and Apple.
@Sailor88@lemmy.world @ComradePedro@lemmy.ml
I’d really love a Linux phone (personally, I have a Linux PC and I use Arch, btw) so don’t get me wrong when I question: what about the banking and government apps? Yeah, because finance systems are getting increasingly digital around the world and every payment will eventually need to involve banking apps, and you guessed it: just Android (Google) and iOS (Apple), no Linux, no KaiOS. One will eventually need apps to pay for rent and consumer bills, even for buying groceries, as fiat currency will get more digital and less physical.
And, no, European Union won’t fight against it because, in fact, the same European Union is seeking to digitalize EUR (see “ECB publishes third progress report on the digital euro preparation phase”, published by European Central Bank on 16 July 2025). It’s not a matter of if, but when physical currencies will become ruled out, and “For Our Security™”, Linux (alonside other alternative OSes) will either be ruled out from internet banking altogether or it’ll be forced to comply with “security requirements” that, in practice, would turn Linux indistinguishable from Android and iOS.
And this seems to be where everywhere is headed, it’s not just an European or USian phenomenon. The future is bleak.
You will use Monero or Parrish.
No, seriously though, the circular economy is growing and by contributing to it, you are giving the middle finger to these fuckers.
Monero will be illegal to own within the EU next year.
It won’t be illegal to own it. It just won’t be possible to buy it from a centralized exchange.
How do we know its not a scam like the rest?
Because the government outright hates it and is doing everything it can short of outright banning it which would be a transparent violation of their own laws. When the government hates it so much that they literally write papers on purposely attacking it in order to suppress it, you know there’s something there.
what about the banking and government apps?
Use the browser versions. Not everything has to be done through apps
@mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works
I’m Brazilian and many Brazilian banks require apps, be it for generating a unique code (e.g. Itaú’s iToken) to authorize/authenticate, to scan a QR code every time the Web client requests an action (e.g. Mercado Pago and Santander), or even to do mobile-only transactions such as Pix (Brazilian instant payment/transfer) because our Central Bank (BACEN, who created and maintains Pix nationwide) requires banks to limit Pix in a per-device basis. The latter is crucial because Pix became the main payment method around here, and it can’t be done through Web browsers.
Then, there are the “safety measures” inherent to these banking apps, so they refuse to work outside rawdogged Android/iOS. Even enabling “Developer mode” or having some apps installed (such as Termux; apps can see which other apps you have installed) is enough for some banks to refuse logging in (and certain banking apps won’t even tell why, just some generic error message).
Also, depending on where a person works, the employer may require the employee to receive their paycheck at a specific bank, which in turn will require an app if the employee is willing to use their own paycheck to pay their bills. Banks have been trying to push their mobile internet banking to their customers, with many banks (such as Bradesco) closing many of their physical branches so people have no nearby ATMs to do banking things.
Finally, even browser-based internet banking (e.g. Caixa Econômica Federal) sometimes require the installation of software akin to kernel-level anti-cheat because “muh security”, and some will support neither Linux nor virtualized Windows (most (if not all) virtualization hypervisors can be easily detected by techniques such as the Red-Pill).
So it’s not as easy as “use the browser versions”, unfortunately.
well need a wine for android. or just a vm. EDIT: I momentarily forgot about waydroid…
There is Android virtualization already (e.g. Genymotion, Android-x86 project, QEMU, among other projects), but just as “Red-Pill” can detect virtualization for x86-based systems, the same concept applies to ARM-based virtualization, and banking apps would likely detect the atypical environment. Also, things such as fingerprint reader (needed to authenticate for certain banks) are likely to not work properly for emulated environments.
I also momentarily forgot about it, but there’s waydroid! if we modify it a bit(make it look more normal, like make it think some common apps are installed), we should be able to get it to run banking apps. also just don’t use fingerprints(but that could also be implemented).
That sounds horrifying. Although also completely predictable and expected, but I didn’t know that in Brazil it had reached that level. Isn’t Lula supposed to do something about it? Back in his first presidency (I was in Brazil back then), Linux was becoming the main OS.
Although the usual 2 party system ensures that the next government would destroy everything, so I imagine all the open source effort was demolished and it can’t keep being rebuilt from scratch every 4 years, when the next government return everything to microsoft.
Anyway, I sent you a message because I have personal interest in the issue. Thanks for the useful but horrifying information.
Enticing but would require most to completely change the way they use their devices, unless the Linux device is in the size and shape of a phone.
That’s true but it’s either that or accept a Google or Apple phone. It’s what I do and I love not having instant reply expectation placed on me.
It’s like the good ole days before cell phones. 😂
It also allows me to significantly improve my personal privacy.
For an experience a bit more familiar, you might consider a pixel, GrapheneOS and pgpp. If I understand it correctly, this setup is a Google-free and privacy-based carrier alternative to the system that is currently at risk.
Google free but with a google phone. Yall know they can put backdoors in hardware? Does everyone not think it is a coincidence that the only phone that works well for this in the United States of Fascism is a Google phone?
Not on Android. People love to stan for Android because “it’s open source,” but Android would have gone nowhere if Google didn’t buy it, and Google wouldn’t have bought it if they weren’t convinced it would let them scrape more personal data than Gmail. (And Andy Rubin made Android because he heard Steve Jobs say the iPhone would run OS X, and he thought he could probably whip up a Linux distro to run on a phone.)
You could get an iPhone and not run any apps by Google, Meta, Microsoft, X, or any of the other privacy-opposed companies. You’d also better change the default search off of Google. DuckDuckGo is an option. Ecosia might be. Not sure. The issue is, while Apple says they’re all about privacy, that’s based on them being a computer/hardware company first (and Google being a data company first). However, Apple is heavily leaning into services now — Apple Music, Apple TV+, Apple News+, and more — and there are rumors they want their own search engine. So while Apple may be privacy strong now, you don’t know what they’ll be a year from now, or three, or five.
It’s like Tim Cook (Apple CEO) said about Facebook when they introduced the tracking limiter. “You can still give Facebook permission to track you all over the web, they just gotta get your permission first.” That’s true of privacy. You can still use Google, Meta, Microsoft, X, TikTok, and other privacy-violating companies’ products, but what you share is entirely up to you. You can use some of those services in Safari and block some tracking, or you can install the apps and allow it all. It’s up to you.
Or, you can buy a Pixel and reward Google’s business model, and put GrapheneOS on it. That is probably better, privacy-wise, than using an iPhone. But you’re still rewarding Google’s business model. And if they’re making so much money off your data that opting out isn’t even an option, why does the Pixel cost the same the iPhone does (and more, considering the Pixel Fold)? You are getting more RAM, but RAM is cheap. You’re not getting a better processor — Apple has won that race for years. Camera tech is about 50/50. Screen is up in the air — I think Apple’s is better, but Google et al use higher resolutions. Apple buys from the same companies but screens are made to spec which is why Apple’s are better than those by companies they buy from. Their spec is more demanding. “Good enough” is what passes in Android — it’s like how iPhones use NVMe and Androids use UFS. NVMe is more expensive, and it’s faster on paper, but in the real world? UFS is good enough. You wouldn’t see a difference, or a significant one, in real world usage. So what are you paying for in a Pixel? The lower specs plus the privacy/data factor should make the Pixel significantly cheaper… except Google is a publicly traded company, so they can’t sell it that low.
Apple may not be the best option, but they’re advertising that they are (with regards to privacy). And I think they’re trying. I’m not saying they’re saints. They are doing better than Google though. And you have to decide if that’s worth your money. And dealing with a crappy keyboard. The keyboard sucks.
You mean the company that gave Trump a gold brick. No thanks. God I wish there was more options.
Keep in mind that every Apple phone is also an AirTag, even if “powered off”. This isn’t the case with most Android phones, and you can get one with a removable battery to ensure it. Sure, there’s Faraday bags, but they are easy to mess up, while you can’t go wrong with just pulling the power at the source.
Also, you don’t have to buy from Google. There’s the second-hand and discount reseller market.
We shouldn’t live life settling for the “lesser evil”, we need more hardware to support things like GrapheneOS.
Keep in mind that every Apple phone is also an AirTag, even if “powered off”.
This can easily be disabled in settings though.
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Sure, I agree and am not disputing that.
It’s the other way around, it’s down to GrapheneOS to support other hardware. They simply choose to focus on Pixels.
You’re onto something with the AirTags but you haven’t got it quite right. Every Apple device participates in the Find My network, which means any Apple device marked as lost will have its location reported, anonymously, by every other Apple device it can communicate with. This is a good thing, unless you’re being stalked via an AirTag placed on your person, but Apple has taken pains to mitigate this issue. One shoe company recently released shoes with AirTag compartments so parents could track their kids, and the placement should mitigate the beeping they can emit. Honestly the AirTags and Find My network do more good than harm, the impact to devices participating in the Find My network is minimal, and if it’s your device that’s lost, you don’t want people opting out so thieves can get away with stealing your stuff.
Apple has a search engine, it’s just not publicly accessible. They’ve had a web crawler for many years and their internal search engine is likely what powers things like siri suggested sites and information for apple maps. It is correct they could enter the search and advertising game at any moment, though unlikely because it would destroy their brand integrity.
That said apple is no saint for privacy. For one they actively enable google; they take billions from google to fund safari development in exchange for prioritizing google as built in search and feeding google user data. For a company like Mozilla this is an ethical conundrum; without googles money they’d likely be done. For a company like apple it is inexcusable. the few billion, while a tremendous amount (I think 18 billion?) is a pittance to them.
Further to your point of “active permission” with the tracking limiter this is not always the case. Apple is aware and does not do anything to reform. Part of the reason companies want you to use their app on ios is because then you will be far more likely to open links via the in app browser, which is still safari/webkit, but now escapes sandboxing and allows for far more precise tracking and fingerprinting even if you utilize the tracking limitations built into ios.
Notice how only sketchy games with tons of blatant ads will prompt the “ask ad not to track” box. Instagram, twitter, youtube, reddit, etc generally don’t because they don’t need to track you through permitted routes. Apple has long been aware of this and continue to do nothing (forcing links to open in safari or another browser, limiting traffic on in app browsers, etc). Lord knows what other tricks scumbags like facebook have to circumvent systems and track everything you do. Apple is well aware it happens without user consent but tolerates it and then has the gall to say their hardware and software is “privacy oriented”
Yes, ironically I just read another article about how Facebook/Meta has gotten around the ATT (App Tracking thing, I forget what the other T stands for) with in-app browsers. The article’s point was that all the beef between Apple and Meta is just for show and that they need each other like Apple and Google, Apple and Samsung, et al. So yeah, with you on that.
Or, you can buy a Pixel and reward Google’s business model, and put GrapheneOS on it.
Did you not get the memo? That might not be an option in the near future, that’s the whole point of OP asking.
Memo about custom firmware? No. I did see the bit about Google blocking sideloading. True, I don’t follow Google/Android news as closely as I follow Apple news due to that being what I use.
That said, I know a fair bit about Android and used to do custom firmware. I know it’s never been easy, largely due to the carriers getting involved. I thought Pixels were unlocked though, at least those bought direct. In the early days when they were Verizon exclusive, the carrier bought ones were locked (this was 2016). Custom firmware in the last 5-10 years? I know a lot less about that.
People love to stan for Android because “it’s open source,” but…Google wouldn’t have bought it if they weren’t convinced it would let them scrape more personal data than Gmail.
I mean it can be both? Android has been awesome for many years precisely because it was open source. It’s the reason we have had and continue to have so many custom ROMs. It was open source so it could be run by Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc. while Google collected all the data. It also meant that independent developers could create their own OSs without any of Google’s BS in it. And that was fine, because us nerds are not even 1% of the market. But something seems to have changed because they’re very suddenly clawing back control of the entire OS. Pretty much the beginning of the end for private mobile devices. This trend is likely to continue faster than the community can create workarounds.
The open source thing is largely a myth, though. AOSP is what’s open source. The version of Android on Pixel phones and Nexus before them was forked from that and bundles a lot of closed source stuff, like Google Play Services, Gmail, and more. But it’s close enough to AOSP that devs can target it and it should run on most/all Android forks.
So then Samsung and others take AOSP and they fork it and make their own OS that is based on Android. They are required per licensing to use Android branding if they want Play Store access. There are other rules, like Chrome and/or Google has to be on the main launcher page, Play Services has to be included… if they don’t play by the rules, they can still fork Android, they just can’t use the name Android… like Fire OS and Switch OS. (It’s unclear if modern Switches use any Android code. Before they were released they were rumored to have forked Android. Switches absolutely do not run Android apps, but the OS borrows several cues from Android design language.)
The open source thing is largely a myth, though. AOSP is what’s open source.
You say it’s a myth, then say it’s not a myth. Which one is it? Is it open source or not?
AOSP and production versions of Android (what’s on the Pixel) are not the same thing.
Yes, that’s what I’ve been trying to tell you.
It was open source so it could be run by Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc. while Google collected all the data.
Wait, it being open source should have no effect on this? It could just as easily be closed source as long as Google offered licenses for manufacturers to use it.
Offering licenses means they could take back their permissions at any time.
OEMs want open source for the same reasons as everyone else.
OK, but Google essentially still has that power, despite the OS being “open-source”.
That has nothing to do with Google, that has to do with the US government.
How does it have nothing to do with Google, if Google did it, even if it was by order of the US government? Regardless, this still clearly demonstrates that AOSP being open-source has no bearing on an OEM being able to use the full Android system or even the name “Android”.
Contrast that with a fully open system like Linux, where this wouldn’t be possible. No OEM would get banned from using Linux, even if the US government ordered it.
How does it have nothing to do with Google, if Google did it, even if it was by order of the US government?
Because Google has zero control over it. You’re REALLY reaching here…
At this point, I’m just hoping to grab a HarmonyOS phone soon. I’d rather have China hoovering up my data than the US, 5 &14-Eyes, and fascist US tech corporation. Terrible compromise, but I don’t see an inexpensive Linux phone on the horizon any time soon.
It doesn’t have to be one or the other, it is still possible to live without a smartphone (for now).
In order to obtain and maintain a visa where I live, I am now actually required to maintain a mobile phone number. You are correct, I could live without a mobile phone, but I’d really miss the GPS.
I said smartphone, not mobile phone. Some feature phones also have GPS functionality.
Issue is whether you can even use it outside of China because of the wireless band difference. I had a Fairphone in Canada that suddenly stopped connecting to the network.
I’m quite sure HarmonyOS won’t even be available in the US, and probably banned being it’s Huawei. Since I don’t live there, I don’t care. Asia will be using Harmony with 6G, while the west trundles along with ever more restrictive OSes, 5G, and an ever aging internet infrastructure.
Fuck it, I’m going back to Landline
It’s more expensive than you think, and it’ll probably be VoIP even if you get it from a “normal” phone company
Weary traveler, I beseeth thee to not harken down this path.
I hear tales of dark spirits haunting those old byways. Ones of greed, with an emotionless façade, and hunger for gold from too-eager souls.
Do tell. I heard it is just VoIP. I guess there is surveillance there too?
I was more referring to telemarketers. Lol. I don’t use landlines anymore for that reason. I’ve thought about it from time to time, but then I hear about the experiences of other people who still have them, and apparently it’s just a telemarketer cesspool at this point.
Well, I’m still hoping for Linux phones to skyrocket a bit when more people realize we’re fucked with Google. But as of today I don’t think we have a reliable alternative for day to day use…
Give me navigation car access like car play or android auto and sure. Also good hardware I want a camera and a SOC that doesn’t suck.
We first need Linux phones to be reliable daily drivers; so far everyone I’ve encountered who has a linux phone says it’s usable… wiþ caveats.
We have to eliminate þe caveats in at least a handful of phones, first.
Said this in another thread
So how long until celluar providers also say you have to have a trusted device to activate your SIM? Apple, Google, Samsung, automotive and Windows would be fine and they’d probably allow their branded or limited hotspots.
This would basically eliminate any Linux option (pc or phone), and DIY devices. I could see other OOB vendors getting on board to be certified to have a certificate issued to them.
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I hear good things about this.
Looks cool, but unless I’m missing something, they’ve only published a few bits and pieces of the LibertOS code
For some reason, this is blocked on uBlock
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Things are fine for now
famous call to inaction that brought us to the shitty situation we face today
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right now? nothing because they already have a practigal monopoly… due, in great part, by the “it’s not so bad” crowd who continue to tolerate shitty corpo behaviour until “oh shit, it’really bad now”
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it’s not panicked, it’s just a rejection of monopolistic practices… but you illustrate my point fantasticly by equating consumer rejection to panick… can’t escape consumerism, eh?
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I have seen no examples of a Linux os that is even close to being usable for daily smartphone needs and progress is laughable in most cases. What are you seeing that makes you think it’s an option for anyone but the most stubborn of users?
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sorry to say, but this is 100% true. i’ve tried postmarketos, manjaro and ubuntu touch – light years behind android and ios.
GrapheneOS still intends to support all the supported devices until EOL. The sideloading change doesn’t affect them. It won’t apply to GrapheneOS. It only applies to certified OSes and GrapheneOS is not certified because it doesn’t license Google Mobile Services. As per the rip out of the device trees for Pixels, that just makes Pixels like other phones. GrapheneOS has been able to expand it’s automation to build that device support themselves. For new devices, making the support will take longer than it did in the past though, but they will still support those Pixels, as long as they meet the hardware requirements and still allow third-party OS support with all security features intact. Besides that GrapheneOS is actively talking with a major Android OEM right now in order to help them reach the security requirements for a subset of their future devices. They are very optimistic about that.
Android is Linux of course since the Android kernel is a Linux kernel. I’m aware you are probablly referring to using traditional Linux OSes that are typically used on desktops on mobile phones. That would, however, be a significant regression for security. Android and iOS are both modern mobile OSes with an in-depth security model which includes a mandatory app sandbox with a sane permission model. This is not present on traditional desktop OSes. This is not meant to diss on those OSes, they are just children of their time, they were created much earlier, security practices have evolved. I can see why it would be a fun experience though to tinker with, it would just not be a secure experience and it’s unlikely to get there because the improvements in traditional Linux distros go much slower than they go on Android and Android is already massively ahead.
I’m not gonna go looking for it or share it, but I am here using my Librem 5 and kinda feeling like that kid in the meme hitting a bong in the background while people in the foreground fight.
How much does the Librem 5 satisfy what you want out of a daily driver phone?
I am satisfied with it. Calls/SMS/MMS all work fine. Internet and the few apps I use work fine.
I will admit though that many (most?) others might not agree. Banking apps, GPS navigation, these are things I don’t care about.
I have gripes with the L5 but I am never, ever going back. My next phone will probably be Purism’s next phone, if they have one.
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I actually switched my bank, because my bank did not have a proper web interface, so I was like, you know what, fuck you, I’m leaving.
Is all the talk about not recieving phones ordered and the poor customer service just a smear campaign or is there truth to it?
How do you like the kill switch?
What country/service are you on?
Have you heard any rumors regarding the inventory issues? They do not have US modem version of their phones in stock, even if you get the really expensive one or a refurbished option.
For context, I am probably as much of a Purism fanboy as you are likely to find…
Is all the talk about not recieving phones ordered and the poor customer service just a smear campaign or is there truth to it?
There is a lot of truth to it, but I do think there were a few very loud voices making it sound worse than it was. I got mine in June 2023, and I was one of the last people on the “preorder” list. I hear a few people mention not receiving theirs still every now and then. The cases I saw mostly came down to emails landing in Spam/Junk folders on the customers end.
But I do think Purism’s support was very lacking in past years. In recent months I have seen some new faces in their Matrix and forums and the new people are really great and responsive. I do not blame certain past Purism employees who were in the firing lane for these issues. Rather I blame Purism’s handling of the refunds for drawing up enough ire to make Purism’s support reps sound like the bad guys.
The refund thing was less than great, for sure. I feel they are improving.
How do you like the kill switch?
Love em. I wish the modem powered on faster but that is nit the fault of the switch, or really a big problem. It takes like 20-30 seconds maybe. The Wifi powers on in a few seconds.
What country/service are you on?
US, Mint Mobile. AT&T also worked for me in the past.
Have you heard any rumors regarding the inventory issues?
Hmmm, maybe? I know there was supposed to be stock of new Liberty Phone main boards this year, and there was hope they would go on sale as a sort of L5 upgrade path. This either did not happen, or Purism is waiting for something to announce it.
I don’t own any other Purism hardware, and so I do not pay much attention to the L14 stock or the Mini or anything.
Thanks so much for letting me know all that. The phones are in stock, but just not with the North American modem selections. Maybe I could contact the company and see if they will arrive soon. I makes me a bit nervous to pay so much with all the hoopla that has happened, but the big corpo stuff is driving me absolutely nuts.
If you don’t commit to anything in the coming months, it may be worth checking it out after Purism (finally :)) pushes out some much needed OS updates. If you go to their forums you’ll see people talking about Crimson and Dawn, this is that update I am referring to.
