Following Charlie Kirk’s assassination and the Trump administration’s promise to go after the “radical left” a study showing most domestic terrosim is far-right was disappeared.
Archived: https://archive.is/Ow3FE
The right wing are bad people and we need to stop pretending it’s just a difference of opinion. They in several fundamental ways suck.
And yet everyone’s all like “oh Goebbels was a gifted marketer and father we can’t say mean things”. Fuck 'em. They can choose to stop being shit any time they want. Until then, they deserve nothing but scorn.
I can accept that this current government in the USA is packed with the absolute most morally bankrupt people in America, but I just can’t conceive of the idea that 52% of Americans are the same.
What’s that in adults like 110 million? I’m not sure how many kids they have over there.
There just isn’t any chance that all those people are monsters too and you ain’t had a civil war. It seems more likely that most Americans have been propagandised by the media and they just only see what they want to see. I doubt every republican voter is watching the stuff we see as let’s be frank we’re likely all terminally online and more connected than they’re and it ain’t even my county.
Perhaps they only ever interact with other republicans cause surely if they hated the democrats that much then there would be shootings in Walmart everyday.
As say this as in the UK I know people that believe some crazy stuff about illegal immigrants (this term sucks and is a non issue) which has them wanting to kick them out and stuff but these people are not like that and get on with people from other countries but right now they’re blinded by the complete bombardment of that kind of content.
Maybe I’m naive, but I feel unlikely as I’m usually incredibly cynical.
77,302,580 Americans voted for Trump out of a total of 340,865,045 individuals. That makes the total number of Americans who wanted some part of what’s going on strongly enough to take some action is roughly 23%. 75 million Americans voted for Harris and 37 million Americans were registered, but did not vote which is roughly 33%.
Only 55% of the country is registered to vote so it’s really hard to tell what the 45% of Americans who aren’t registered feel politically, but it’s probably safe to assume if they can’t be bothered to vote, they’re probably not down for the civil war remix.
Of the 23% who voted conservative in 2024, not all of them hold far right beliefs. It’s hard to say what fraction of that population would fall on the far right, especially because Trumpism itself holds some far right ideology. Even assuming half of all republican voters are ready and willing to engage in a civil war, that’s only 35 million people or 11% of the population.
They’re really loud online and currently have control of the government, but there really aren’t that many of them. There are far more people who don’t care, centrists, democrats, and leftists.
Perhaps they only ever interact with other republicans cause surely if they hated the democrats that much then there would be shootings in Walmart everyday.
I’m told there were about 500 mass shootings (4 or more people) last year. So we’re pretty close.
And I don’t think it’s 52%. A lot of people don’t vote or update their voter records. But there does seem to be a frothy core that’s getting high on hating people.
I think conservatives are more insular, too. If you live in a city and actually see and interact with other kinds of people, its harder to hate them as monsters.
It’s more like 1/3 because 1/3 of Americans don’t vote. Also, that 1/3 that votes Republican is the most politically uninformed 1/3. And many of them don’t actually know what the people they vote for believe, they just vote R because they always have.
“I love the poorly educated.”
-Some guy, Feb 24, 2016I tried to find a study I read a year or two ago about how informed voters were. It kind of shocked me that it was really close between the Rs and the Ds. Neither voter was particularly well-informed, just tribal.
I went looking out of curiosity, and the first study my search turned up found:
We have established and replicated a clear experimental effect in which subjects randomly treated with political information shift their preferences toward the Democratic Party. We draw the conclusion that, in contrast to previous observational work, the current deficit of political knowledge in the electorate actually benefits the Republican Party.
Fowler, A., & Margolis, M. (2014). The political consequences of uninformed voters. Electoral Studies, Volume 34, 2014, 100-110. [https://doi.org/10.1016/j.electstud.2013.09.009]
I’m not trying to refute your statement or the assertion that you saw the study you describe; I just found this bit interesting and worth adding here.
I’d like to see that study, it does not match my personal experience.
I found a couple that almost said the same thing, but can’t seem to dig up the study I had read. That’s annoying. It left an impression because I too had thought (and if I’m honest, I still think) the more progressive thinkers have a better understanding and are better informed than our ugly regressive opponents. I was kind of down for a few days after reading that both sides were pretty equally shitty. Just in terms of knowledge, not life view or wishes for society/humanity.
there is no reason to give the majority of those people the benefit of the doubt. Humans can have large groups with oppressive opinions. A large segment of Germans supported the nazi’s, a large section of Israel thinks gaza isn’t being destroyed harshly enough and a large sections of americans currently believe in massive oppression.
Goebbels was a great father, how dare you?
How many fathers can claim they killed their own children because he was a little bitch?
If more fascists in this country thought the way Goebbels did, we’d have less fascists in this country.
He couldn’t stand to spend a day in the afterlife without his children with him. Doesn’t his love just bring a tear to your eye?
Joseph Goebbels was a Nazi, and he poisoned his 6 kids at the end of the war before also committing suicide… Nobody is saying that about him, and I know where you got that phrase from too…I literally just read the article on lemmy. So I dont know why you’re using it since its out of context.
You can criticize people without making shit up…
“We” are not maintaining the delusion that the right wing monsters are legitimate. It’s the media that has pretended these far right extremist positions are sane, and has elevated them to prominence. If they were honest about how loathsome and unamerican right wing ideals are, we wouldn’t be in this mess.
Media corpos are typically run by right wingers, and are massive for-profit companies that make a killing on running election ads (presently a ~20Bn industry cyclic every 4 years), so it shouldn’t be a huge surprise that they do this. And now the Trump admin has weaponized the DOJ to go after them for any criticism at all, so this phenomenon is on steroids currently.
I strongly agree with your last sentence. The media, other politicians, etc - nobody is going to hold right wingers accountable for us. Unfortunately, we have to do it ourselves, to their dumb faces, and force them to face the uncomfortable truths of their reprehensible actions. Good luck, be strong, and find ways to consistently stand up for the morally correct positions. Keeping pressure up this way is a vital component to how we can win.
Own it you fucking twats.
Feelings are their facts.
And they vote in support of each other.
It’s really annoying
Their feelings don’t care about the facts
The New World Order cannot tolerate evidence that doesn’t comply!
It’s always the ones you most suspect.
I think it’s just mostly big media, stirring the shit out of everything to see what happens. CHA-CHING!!!
“The facts don’t care about your feelings” crowd continues to hate facts.
Quintez Brown attempted to kill Democratic Mayor of Louisville, Kentucky, Craig Greenberg, in February 2022. Brown was motivated by Black nationalism, pan-Africanism and revolutionary socialism.
I dunno, to me revolutionary socialism is something I equate with “the left”.
Still, 1 out of 30 ain’t bad.
No doubt left-wing terrorism has happened. Just much less frequent and deadly.
Yeah:
“The only perpetrator arguably from the Left is Black nationalist Quintez Brown.”
So they did acknowledge it, but kind of gave it a pass because he wasn’t “affiliated with the Democratic Party or any other mainstream reformist, progressive or leftist organisation”.
I think it’s still a bit up in the air about whether Tyler Robinson had a consistent ideology. He is 22, an age where political leanings can be all over the place and evolve pretty rapidly. Whatever the case, it seems he operated alone. So we can consider how much online rhetoric influenced him one way or another, but it doesn’t seem like there was any organizational pressure or even a forum that had a chance to talk him into or out of his plan.
The article does make a broader point well supported by data, broadly speaking the right has gotten more violent and we don’t see a similar pattern on the left. No matter which way Tyler lands or just attributed to less ostensibly political ideology, I think the trend is still valid. It’s somewhat less dangerous if they can definitively establish him as a Fuentes like, but I fear he might be credibly “grown out of it”.
“He was young and operated alone so does it count?”
So those classified as right wing perpetrators, were they older and organized?
I also think we can’t overlook his upbringing. Growing up in a conservative household and raised to use guns from a young age, his decision to kill Charlie Kirk stems from that upbringing. Even if his politics happened to deviate from that of his parents, which is still in the realm of speculation right now, he was only using the tools and the methodology that he was given.
So, hear me out. According to horseshoe theory…
You’re going to have to explain how this applicable in detail before I hear you out.
If you go far enough to the right, I’m told that you come out the other side as a Leftist.
And since the Groyper was to Charlie Kirk’s right? And Charlie Kirk was the most far-right figure that was politically palpable to national media? And also, this guy was some middle-class shitkicker from Utah with poisoned internet brain who we can hallucinate any kind of ideology we want onto?
Defacto Leftist. QED. Also, transgender. Muslim. Communist. Atheist. An illegal immigrant. Some combination of Russian and Chinese. Whatever the scary thing of the current news cycle happens to be.
Horseshoes aren’t circles. The left and right sides are disconnected except for the one path between them, which to me would imply that one must abandon one side to reach the other. In other words, that theory sounds dumb, or alternatively, only sounds smart if you don’t think about it much.
If you go far enough to the right, I’m told that you come out the other side as a Leftist.
So all of these republicans that are doing shitty, shitty, things (like murder and pedophilia) are just far-leftists that took the horseshoe roller coaster? That is fucking hilarious.
Well, according to the horseshoe theory that (right of) centrists love so much, yes.
@UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world is being satirical, but this is a genuine and dangerous thought process for rightists. Every time one of their own practices what they preach and commits a violent atrocity that is not immediately acceptable to their party (like the assassination of the Hortmans or attempted murder of the Pelosis), that person is automatically a “leftist.” The reason they can never provide any definition for “leftism” is because they have no idea. To them, leftism is “everything bad” and “anything bad” is automatically leftism. It’s a catch-all bogeyman term for political out-groups that can’t be easily sorted into skin color, sexuality, or genitalia.
I recognized the name, but I couldn’t remember which way it went that I remembered it. I really wish they had tags for users on sh.itjust.works. That would solve a lot.
like the assassination of the Hortmans or attempted murder of the Pelosis
One of the funniest moments after J6 was the real-time shift from all the right-wing AM Radio Heads insisting their movement had been infiltrated by Antifa to them cheering it on and calling the rioters patriots.
Shame Biden didn’t put the whole movement in the grave when he had them on the ropes. But that’s Weimar Liberalism for you.
So all of these republicans that are doing shitty, shitty, things (like murder and pedophilia) are just far-leftists that took the horseshoe roller coaster?
It feels like you are shoehorning the horseshoe theory in.
If I wanted to shoehorn something in, I’d use Fish Hook theory as its got better leverage.
go on
You’re probably being sarcastic here, but just to clarify, horseshoe theory is nonsense invented by centrists. Take Kirk for example. The left hated him for being a terrible human being. Groypers hated him for not being a terrible enough human being. Superficially the same, but trying to accomplish vastly different outcomes.
horseshoe theory is nonsense invented by centrists.
It’s not nonsense, it’s an observation that as people become more politically extreme, they become defined more by their extremism than their ideology.
“Centrist” is a logical fallacy anyway. Nobody declares themselves a “centrist”, there are right and wrong answers to political questions and it isn’t going to be “in between”.
horseshoe theory is nonsense invented by centrists
That’s just what a person simultaneously on the Far-Left and Far-Right would want you to believe!
The left hated him for being a terrible human being. Groypers hated him for not being a terrible enough human being.
A bit more seriously, it wasn’t “Groypers” who hated him quite so much as a particular set of far-right slacktivists who were jealous of his success and wanted in on his grift. If there is a single person who might have been held directly responsible for the Kirk shooting (other than the shooter himself), it was Nick Fuentes - who just so happened to be front row center filming when Kirk got-got.
I’ve seen conservatives compare Kirk to MLK, but I think the more accurate comparison would be Tupac.
Ministry of Truth.
This is bad.
It’s also so obvious I’d consider it a show of power. A threat.Right wing Europeans are continually taking notes of what can be done. And they are all forming an Internationale.
Its so fucking bad.We need to shut down fascists by disrupting their conferences and communications, and dividing them by disparaging the evangelists’ support for Trump as betraying Christian values (because Trump is atheist), and by disparaging the fascists’ support for evangelists as betraying the state values (in that the church doesn’t listen to fascism), and so on. Divide and rule.
Communists need to have more children than the fascists.
Communists need to have more children than the fascists.
Got it, so clone army it is.
Well, “study” is already such a radical-left, woke concept! Like all those “studies” about vaccines. True MAGA Patriots go by gut feeling and by other things that are also produced in the guts!
P values are woke. The IRB is the deep state. Data is biased for lefties.
If they knew what any of those things were they’d say it.
You know if we actually wanted to get rid of these people it would be really easy. All we have to do is release some deadly but preventable disease. Then encourage everyone to get vaccines.
The problem with covid is that it wasn’t really deadly for most people. So they got sick and were probably miserable but they never learnt their lesson.
A friend of mine, always with a non optimal immune system, had planned a wedding anniversary vacation to Mexico in 2009 but refused to get a shot against the Mexican Flu…
Within a week of his vacation he got infected with the Mexican Flu, which by then was a pandemic… (the western world almost forgot about this one) He quickly was transported to an ER in his home city, tubes sticking out of him everywhere, no one allowed to visit him beyond the airlock… Eventually he recovered but it took at least a year to feel sort of healthy. Claimed he regretted not getting the H1N1 (Mexican Flu) vaccine.
He got a flu-shot a year after, but after the 2nd year he refused “if I get one I get a stuffed nose for a full month”.
When I reminded him of not learning a lesson from the Mexican Flu, he claimed it wasn’t that bad…
Almost had no proper recollection of being in emergency care with tubing all over his body…Year 5 after his H1N1 adventure he had been without flu shots for a while, got another flu, was badly ill for 6 weeks, lost his job because of it… Tried to convince himself it was a younger worker who stole his job…
We broke contact after a while where it was clear he was willfully spiraling downward into a black hole of denial and blaming others.
So, yeah, folks like that do not learn a lesson, not even if they end up very ill and it having lasting effects on their life, there is a pressing need to find another person to lay blame on.
You should reconnect with them to see if they are now blamimg immigrants for their situation.
Of course it was.
Wow, what fragile egos.
Someone keyed my minivan over the weekend, probably because of some pro-trans/science stickers. Luckily the paint is not a concern of mine (it had rattle-canned sections when I bought it, I knew what I was getting), but still. I pointed it out to my wife, she just quipped “and they call us snowflakes 😂”. God I love that woman.
All of this shit makes me want to play dirty now. Preach hate, get hate; and all that.
I’ve been simmering on some ‘radical left-wing’ grafitti such as;
Be Kind
Build Community
Don’t Hate
Love Thy Neighbor
But I don’t want to get black bagged for spreading such subversive rhetoric.
You’re clearly a menace to society! I ought to turn you into the thought police for my brownie points. I might even get enough for a gold star this year!
I would straight up start busting windows out of any vehicle with trump stickers. But I have a family who needs fed and housed, so I don’t.
Yet.
“don’t hate” seems like an extremely radical message. I hate lots of things, and I think it is right to hate those things.
I hate it when Nazis gain power. I hate it when children are molested. I hate injustice. Don’t you?
And how productive has that hate been for you? Has your hate fixed anything?
I was molested as a teen. If you walked up to me and asked me “do you hate that guy” I’d be very confused. I’d say that’s very meaningless question.
You think he cares if I hate him or not? I don’t waste my time hating bad people. It doesn’t solve the problem. Use your energy more wisely.
Something I say a lot “I never solved a problem by being pissed off.”
Just my opinion on tho. You do you.
I agree that there are many unproductive forms of hate. I’m not advocating for you to hate the person that hurt you.
But hate has been productive for me. With our world in decline, it is so easy to get depressed and nihilistic, sometimes I have no hope. Hate is a strong motivator to do something positive for the world.
I can’t argue with that. I find anger and hatred exhausting.
Everybody is different though. If it motivates you I have no business judging.
Honestly, it is the behavior of the righwing that is making me edge towards being a militant leftist. If they are going to lie and persecute the innocent, at what point should they be shielded by civility?
I think when the left’s emotional dam breaks, the conservatives would have to face the consequences for their actions.
militant leftist
The word “militant” is interesting, particularly its use as a vague slur. It suggests extremism or even violence without requiring evidence of such (for example 15-20 years ago the term “militant atheist” got flung around a lot, referring to people who didn’t believe in God and were outspoken and unashamed of it).
It caught my attention when encountering the Italian counterpart “militante” which means anyone who gets off their ass for something they believe in. Carrying a sign in a protest is definitely “militante”. And as such it’s not a slur, or suggestive of anything scary. I guess the meaning in English isn’t so materially different except for the bourgeois fear of activism which it conjures up.
Corrected text:
“Following Chork getting what he deserved, and the Trump terrorist regime’s threat to go after a demented fiction, a study showing most domestic terrorism being far-right, was censored.”
