I see this on Imgur and Bluesky as well. Here’s a great example, and the one that prompted me to finally ask. My daughter has autism and ADHD. She takes speed to slow down. Best friend is ADHD, same deal. But they’re basically “normal” people. I’m truly sorry is this comes off as insensitive.
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It’s normal to be aware of how people perceive us. We are apes. Need I elaborate?
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We ALL mess up more when someone is watching. Forget the word, but it’s a well-known psychological tic.
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Yes, we all conform and hide parts of ourselves in public, doesn’t mean you can’t “be yourself”. Want to see someone who doesn’t mask at all? Trump.
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If you’re not aware of threats, Darwin would like a word. And yes, many things we perceive as threats are dumb monkey perceptions. We’re all silly in this way.
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Uh, I double check my door locks. Not paranoid, but my situation in America makes that a simple, smart move. Some people live around lots of strangers, checking your private space is a normal thing.
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We all hate being stared at. That’s a monkey threat. We evolved that way.
The “suspicious sounds” thing is the only part I’d pick out as a bit strange. But who hasn’t jumped when the ice maker kicks in? I’ve often thought someone crawled in the dog door. (A bear did one time, a hybrid wolf another, so let me slide on that one.)
I can go on /c/autism and pick 100 other memes for examples. Almost every single thing I see there, “Yeah, we all go though that/feel that way/do that thing.” Here’s one:
https://piefed.cdn.blahaj.zone/posts/6k/Lb/6kLbDigyQuftk4k.jpg
Doesn’t everyone do that now and again?! I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Serious questions:
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Does lemmy have an above normal number of autistic/ADHD people?
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Is this perception a way for young people to feel special and different?
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Maybe young people don’t realize just how fucking weird growing up is and think they have a problem?
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Do people not realize that even after adulthood, we all have weird foibles?
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Are people so socially isolated that they think their weird thoughts are uncommon?
Just want to start the discussion. Help me understand.
there’s definitely a non-zero number of people who self-diagnose as something to feel “special,” but for every one of them there are five people who are autistic or ADHD and need accomidations but won’t get them because the people around them think they’re doing them a favor by insisting they’re not “broken.” you don’t want your kid to be the first thing, sure, but also make sure you aren’t causing the second thing- if you’re in doubt, the right person to ask is a psychologist or a psychiatrist. however, that can be very expensive, hence the whole self diagnosis to begin with
I’m diagnosed with Asperger’s (mild Kanner’s, but with low emotional intelligence), and this happens all the time.
Could be that everyone identifies with the same things that the group you’re referring to experiences. But that group often has it much worse than most people. Or that the vocal minority of that group misrepresents the hole.
What you see as “basically normal” is after they are medicated. Isn’t that the point of the medication? Maybe go look at someone who stops taking it for an experiment.
That first sentence is likely my answer! People are identifying with the memes, therefore they feel they belong to that group when they may truly not. I am not a smart man.
As to medication, LOL. My ADHD best friend and his ADHD wife brought some Ritalin home one afternoon. Very excited, they invited me to join in snorting a line. I was bouncing off the walls like I was on meth. They got calm and were very happy to just sit on the couch and talk.
Another funny one; When we were 17 a salesman in the department store offered us coffee he was selling. Gf: “No, that will put me to sleep.” Say what?! True enough. We met and lived with each other 10-years later, coffee knocked her out cold.
But what really turned my head was seeing my 6-yo daughter on medicine the first time. She never struck me as “abnormal” until I saw her on speed. We watched her literally stop and smell the flowers.
For adhd you will be diagnosed as either hyperactive, primary inattentive, or combined. The primary inattentive I believe is the type most often diagnosed in women if I remember correctly, it is what I was diagnosed with, though I am male. It is less noticeably disruptive to others and less likely to be diagnosed than hyperactive, though it is a spectrum. To that point, I wasn’t diagnosed until I was 35. You may not be bouncing off the walls and seem normal, but your thoughts are bouncing around in your head. It is hard to work if you can’t focus on the task at hand, it is hard to talk to people if you can’t focus on the conversation. Alternatively, that does go great if you hyper focus on the thing you are doing, but that’s the problem with it, you don’t choose to hyperfocus, it happens.
I have found medication exceedingly helpful in managing my symptoms, currently on 60mg of lisdexfetamine(sp?). It’s not perfect, but it is great. I wasn’t sure it was working initially, but after missing several doses close together it was apparent it had been working but became my new normal, because without it I slipped into that overstimulated thought chaos much more easily. Different medications work for different people and not for others. Some swear by some of the non stimulants, but they didn’t work for me, and one gave me mild ED while I was on it
I’m now amused at myself because my first comment was a flippant one liner and now this response is a run on word vomit
It’s trendy for some reason.
In the 2000s in France, some people wrote books on children with high IQ, and suddenly all the parents had a gifted child. Psychiatricists were flooded with IQ tests from those parents. There were dozens of forums on the web with parents of gifted children, and other forums with self-diagnosed teenagers.
Then the fad died and all those web sites disappeared.
Now it’s ADHD and autism. Most are self-diagnosed again I’m sure because it’s fun and easier to have mental issues, instead of accepting that you should work in yourself. Would you rather be special, or normal and boring?
Whoever told you a diagnosis is an excuse to not work on yourself? What do you think therapy is?
There is no need for work or therapy with self-diagnosis.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say the majority of people would rather get an official diagnosis and subsequent treatment including therapy but because of how Everything Is, they can’t. Self-diagnosis, in most cases, is a last resort in the face of a desperate need to understand what is “wrong”.
Are untrained people as accurate at diagnosing themselves as the professionals with degrees who spend years to train for it?
Didn’t want to say it, but it sure seems trendy to me. Quick example from my daughter:
She had zero issues with eye contact until very recently. She reads memes telling her eye contact is a problem for people like her. Now she has problem.
I am NOT saying that issue is fake, but when a child is constantly bombarded with, “This is how you are!”, they become that way.
Part of my thoughts in the OP are, “We’re making normal behavior out to be abnormal and slapping a label on it. And perhaps we’re making it worse than need be.”
My mother constantly told me I was sickly as a child, and I was constantly sick. First year of college (without her influence) was my first year without a single illness, not even a mild cold. Miracle! Wait…
Yes to four out of the five serious questions.
Do you know the Barnum Effect? In my country they did a funny test on TV once, they’d do people’s astrological charts and then read one chart to them, and every single person was like “Woah, this is so about me! That’s totally me!” and then they would be like “Oops, I picked the wrong chart, this one is actually Hitler’s”
Well you see, I have my diagnosis paperwork
Your daughter does not take “speed”. Educate yourself.
These are genetic disorders. Ask yourself, why it might be that you, who gave your daughter large parts of her genetic makeup, perceive her as “normal”.
Everybody pees. If you have to run to the loo every 5 minutes, see a doctor.
If I took her ADHD drugs, I’d be on speed. She takes them, she calms down. Yes, it’s speed, I’ve done loads, all kinds, I get it. Why else you think said drugs are so highly controlled? Shit’s nearly like meth to “normal” people.
Are you telling me to educate myself and implying there’s a genetic component to autism/ADHD? Imma need to see your notes.
My brother in Christ, you could be a supportive father, and instead you’re posting comments like this. Be better. She’s getting controlled substances from licensed healthcare professionals, there is a reason for that. Fuck off with the speed comments.
Your judgement seems baseless and irrational. Be better.
It’s only baseless and irrational if you cannot follow the extremely basic conversation…
Ratio
So you acknowledge that the medication your daughter takes does something beneficial to her brain that it doesn’t do for “normal” people yet you still question whether there really is anything “not normal” with her?
I don’t understand your second paragraph.
Methylphenadate is chemically different from Methamphetamines. They are produced differently. They are processed in different ways by the body. They have different effects on the brain. And most importantly, they are prescribed from a medical professional.
You’re perpetuating an incredibly harmful stigma that directly impacts the lives of those struggling with ADHD, including your loved ones.
The only thing in this list that I relate to is the masking, so I’ll address that
Yes, we all conform and hide parts of ourselves in public, doesn’t mean you can’t “be yourself”.
As I understand it, when a neurotypical person is hiding parts of themselves, it’s something like “I don’t want anyone to know I’m into Taylor Swift”. So just don’t talk about it. It’s that simple. For me, I have to think about every word I say because no one interprets things literally. If someone asks me whether or not I like Taylor Swift and I want to answer in the affirmative, can I just say yes? Or do I need to take note of the day of the week and say no while gesturing wildly with my left hand when it’s a Monday or look 15º to the left from Wednesday to Friday? When we talk about masking, it’s that, applied to every single sentence coming out of your mouth. Comparatively, never talking about Taylor Swift is a trivial task.
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Social media in general attracts autistic people, because it’s much easier to socialize without being judged or excluded.
By definition Autism and ADHD are disabilities that negatively impact your life relative to other people.
It’s important to have a word to label what the issue is in a neutral way, because if you don’t use the word autism, you get called words like “weird,” “creepy,” “stupid,” or the r-word. When none of those things are true. Your brain just doesn’t intuitively understand things the way other peoples’ does.
The ADA defines a person with a disability as a person who has a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activity. Socialization is a major life activity. Loneliness is a major cause of depression of death, and not being able to socialize well impacts your ability to maintain employment. When these issues aren’t managed, your ability to function in society is significantly impaired.
To me, this post is no different from saying “You’re not dyslexic, you just needed to try harder in spelling class.” When people have an issue, telling them it doesn’t exist isn’t helpful.
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That first sentence tells me SO much. I never once thought of that.
autistic people find talking online better than talking in person, it’s also not very safe to talk about autism IRL where people will judge you, so it’s not talked about as much IRL
Also as a sidenote, ASD has different symptoms for different people. I don’t relate to some of the things personally, but my sister (also with ASD) does.
source:
These things happening once in a while is normal.
These things happening all the time is an issue.
For a lot of symptoms of adhd, autism and others it’s not what you experience, but the frequency at which you experience and how detrimental it is for you because of the frequency.
Like, everyone needs to piss and shit. But if you’re going 10 times every 2 hours, something is wrong.
That is starting to make sense. Yet I’ve never met a human that experiences these things non-stop. My daughter can be “off” sometimes, but she’s mostly not. And yes, I understand it’s a spectrum, there are degrees.
Intensity is also important. One symptom of autism for me is compulsive tendencies. The things on the shelf have a correct order and it bothers me if they aren’t in that order. Food has a correct order to eat it in and I don’t go back and forth between things or mix things together. Various daily tasks have to be done in a certain order.
I don’t have OCD. The difference is that I can still function if these things are done wrong, it causes anxiety and agitation but not beyond a level that I can deal with. Someone with OCD might have the exact same tendencies but not be able to move forward without “fixing” whatever is wrong even if fixing it causes them injury or prevents them from dealing with more important things. Everyone wants to wash their hands sometimes. People without strong compulsions stop before their hands bleed.
Have you also thought of the idea that maybe she’s masking some of those symptoms around you? A lot of the language in your post seems judgmental, if just ignorant. It could be she’s willing and able to internalize those symptoms around you or other people in order to make her life easier - lots of us do it around family because a LOT of parents wind up coming out of the gate sounding like you, and it’s easier to just go “look I’m fine” rather than have to justify our diagnosis constantly.
Autism, especially what used to be considered “high functioning” autism like Asperger’s, isn’t always a “constant” feeling of these symptoms anymore than an average schizoaffective person or someone with BPD or someone with bipolar is constantly experiencing their own symptoms. You have good days, you have bad days, and you have triggers and sometimes you can nut up even on the bad days and go to work or school or whatever. Autistic people aren’t constantly Rainman-ing their way through life, or constantly reenacting Sheldon from Big Bang Theory or whatever your popular conception is.
You’re already saying “she’s mostly not off”, so why is it so hard to believe that she has this disorder, or that it’s hard to take the next step and say “huh, she says that the medicine really helps and makes it easier for her, so I’ll believe her on that.”. I understand wanting the best and worrying about things like chemical dependency, but her doctor should be - and almost certainly IS - monitoring for this at regular checkups.
It’s a pretty common thing nowadays to self-diagnose. Some understandably want an answer to why they are how they are, while others want to feel like they’re original and unique.
However, getting an actual diagnosis from a licensed psychiatrist is paramount to understanding and managing one’s behavior, emotional state, and well being. Self-diagnosis is dangerous to these same things.
Being autistic isn’t cute. It’s not silly and quirky. For many, it’s hell. And having ADHD doesn’t excuse poor decisions and bad behavior like a lot of people seem to assume it does.
Having said this- many people who self-diagnose try to see normal human behavior as being neurodivergent behavior when it’s not. Anyone who knows better would have learned this back with the basics when they were diagnosed by a professional.
I’m living with undiagnosed Adhd for all of my life. My son got a diagnosis when he was 6 or 7 - thus I know the symptoms, and frankly I know too much of the diagnosis method now to get myself an honest diagnosis. (I know how to answer to get the results I want). And I don’t need it anymore, I adjusted my life to play more into my strengths and less into my weaknesses. (And the last 10 years - in my 50s - I feel like symptoms are getting milder)
The complicated thing is: Every single symptom of adhd is being experienced by the majority of normal people. It’s just being “more” of that statistically.
It feels like setting the difficulty level on a video game, you’ll see the same things, you’ll see the same bosses. You play on hard while the guy how got to play life in story mode tells you how lazy you are because you didn’t fight all the bosses, yet.
A big part of dealing with adhd is accepting that my challenge is mine and is different from yours.
And that probably is why “being neurodivergent” is so “attractive”. It gives us the freedom of not being seen as lazy or stupid, and that’s something that I think should really apply to every single fucking human on this world.
We all have our challenges. You are OK as you are. You are worthy of love. And yes, life is hard, you’re not lazy.
If seeing people like this were the norm, “neurotypical” people wouldn’t need to see themselves as divergent. People just use “adhd” or “autism” to say “look, I have my challenges, too”.
The same way not everyone who gets sad has depression or not everyone who gets nervous has anxiety
Didn’t you know?
On Lemmy, everyone is a trans-feminine lesbian autist communist.
/joke
But seriously, doctors appointments are scary and time consuming and like half of Lemmy are Americans without healthcare.
On Lemmy, everyone is a trans-feminine lesbian autist communist.
Not everyone yet, but we’re working on it.
I’ve come to the conclusion that everyone is somewhere on the spectrum.
The question of whether to get a diagnosis is more about handling any issues that come from it. Some people need medication, some people needs extra help with certain things and some people just needs to know about it - in order to function in the way that makes sense to them.
If you need those things to function, it will help to get a diagnosis, because it can make it a lot easier to get that help, especially if it’s medical.
But, make no mistake. Everyone has something. It’s only a question of whether you need to treat it.
In a perfect world where there was no prejudice, we could be screening all school children and hand out paperwork along the grades, so you’d get an 8 in Math class and a 4 in ADHD. You know, just to get a full picture of the person.
But joking aside, there’s no reason why teaching can’t be more inclusive of these issues and just teach everyone as if they have autism and ADHD, even if they do not have a diagnosis. More often than not it’s only a matter of being allowed extra time for certain tasks or a slightly more pedagogical approach. Everyone can benefit from that, so it’s completely wrong to place diagnosed kids in special classes, when what is really needed is better educated teachers.
I think there is a lack of understanding here and it’s the same lack of understanding I see in the late diagnosed parts of the community. For some people it is a lot more disabling than others. There are many that can’t actually function fully independently. Arguably no one with a formal diagnosis should really function fully independently without some kind of support system or therapy or medication in place.
You also can’t cater to everyone in mainstream education. There is a very good reason why special education exists. This is one of those takes that suggests dismantling a system just because you haven’t experienced the reasons for its existence.
That’s a valid point.
What I’m addressing is that after the EU mandated schools to include everyone in the same classes, things just don’t work.
It used to be one class with “normal” students and one class with *special " students, each with their own teachers. This was highly ostracizing to a lot of pupils who had a mild ADD diagnosis, and that number keeps increasing as parents become more accepting and take their kids for diagnosis.
The current strategy is include everyone in one class and then use supplemental teachers where it’s necessary. Big unsurprising shock is that it’s necessary to have a speciel teacher attached to every single class and they can’t find neither funding or qualified teachers. Surprised Pikachu!
It would be easy to say that we should go back to the old system, but that is also wrong. What they need is to educate every teacher to be able to include the “special” students.
I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a “special” class, but it should be reserved for the pupils who are further out on the spectrum.
When I was a kid myself, the special class was for kids with Downs. That hardly exists anymore, because of the option to abort after the chromosome test, and because these kids are funneled into special institutions to begin with. Kids with ADHD or autism would be in normal classes and failing because nobody recognized it as a handicap. They do now, but prior to the EU decision it was the opposite problem. The special classes were full of kids with mild diagnoses. The EU decision addressed this issue, but it wasn’t the right way, because there was no money given to update the qualifications of the teachers.
What I am suggesting is that we accept the inclusion, but also that we to ensure that all teachers are capable of handling it. We shouldn’t ostracize kids with mild diagnoses by putting then in special class or having special teachers. If we want to include them, which we should, we need to go all in on making the mainstream education include them.
While giving teachers more education on special needs is always nice to have, it’s not going to solve the need for additional staff. Pretty much all teachers already receive some baseline instructions and training related to handling students with disabilities. There are already classrooms with additional needs kids that only have a single member of staff. For more mild disabilities that’s the standard here in the UK. There are also loads of students like me who going through school needed dedicated staff even if it was in a normal mainstream classroom environment. There are sort of three levels of intervention here: exam arrangements only, additional support in class, and dedicated classrooms. All three are used for good reasons. In some cases you can have different levels of intervention for the same student in different classes depending on how much they struggle in a given academic area, that’s what I had towards the end of my schooling career.
