Linux phones are still behind android and iPhone, but the gap shrank a surprising amount while I wasn’t looking. These are damn near usable day to day phones now! But there are still a few things that need done and I was wondering what everyone’s thoughts on these were:
1 - tap to pay. I don’t see how this can practically be done. Like, at all.
2 - android auto/apple CarPlay emulation. A Linux phones could theoretically emulate one of these protocols and display a separate session on the head unit of a car. But I dont see any kind of project out there that already does this in an open-source kind of way. The closest I can find are some shady dongles on amazon that give wireless CarPlay to head units that normally require USB cables. It can be done, but I don’t see it being done in our community.
3 - voice assistants. wether done on device or phoning into our home servers and having requests processed there, this should be doable and integrated with convenient shortcuts. Home assistant has some things like this, and there’s good-old Mycroft blowing around out there still. Siri is used every day by plenty of people and she sucks. If that’s the benchmark I think our community can easily meet that.
I started looking at Linux phones again because I loathe what apple is doing to this UI now and android has some interesting foldables but now that google is forcing Gemini into everything and you can’t turn it off, killing third party ROMS, and getting somehow even MORE invasive, that whole ecosystem seems like it’s about to march right off a cliff so its not an option anymore for me.
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By tap to pay, you mean things like Apple pay and Google pay? We don’t have that on degoogled androids, let alone on Linux phones…
But they are still incredibly useful. I do and will put up with a fully-googled phone just for that convenience.
do they come with a surcharge on every payment?
I’ve never seen a surcharge for tap to pay in the US. I’m not sure about elsewhere, but whether I’m tapping my car, my phone, or my watch I have never seen any surcharge from the retailer, my banks, or from Google.
ok that makes things better. Here its like a 1-3% surcharge at some shops while larger shops eat the cost.
We do occasionally see a small surcharge in the US when using a card, but that’s regardless of method (swipe, insert, or tap). Very small businesses will often charge 1-5% for any debit or credit purchase, and cash price is the listed price. But again, that’s not tap specific
Missing those things would be a feature for me.
I’m much more worried about having a usable battery life and having basic phone functions like WiFi calling and MMS work.
I see vo-LTE generally doesn’t work at all either.
I agree that missing these things are features IMO.
Typing this reply from SailfishOS with working VoLTE, MMS and all the things. Occasionally I have to restart a service but overall its pretty good
Tap-to-pay and car assistance are must-have in today’s world. 10-15 years ago, no. Today, yes. Bank apps is the other thing that can’t be done either (because bank apps want a “certified” system to run on). Here in Greece, it’s required you have a bank app on your phone to go with your daily life.
Yes, we all want a simpler life, like it was in the past, so we can envision an OS system that “it’s good enough”. But reality is not on our side. Linux as an open source community phone OS, made by non-commercial/non-corporate entities, can’t be an OS for the masses. It just won’t tick any boxes for them in today’s world. The current Linux phone OSes could be contenders 15 years ago, but not today.
“must-have” is subjective.
Yes these things are required to achieve wide spread adoption but I personally could do without them.
widespread adoption means you can get things like contributors who will then work on optimising battery life and other fundamentals.
Sure, but I feel like most people in this thread are evaluating what devices are viable for their own personal use right now.
Widespread adoption would be great, but I’m not evaluating whether a device is presently viable for widespread adoption.
Are they must haves? I don’t use tap to pay, pretty useless feature for me.
Cars? I don’t want or need android auto. Bluetooth is the only thing I care about.
Navigation on the device is good enough for me, it doesnt need to use the screen.
I have no interest in mobile banking, but that could be an issue if people are used to sending money to each other instantly via a bank app.
Navigating on a 6" screen is pretty annoying after getting used to the larger one.
Absolutely must haves for me personally, I use each probably daily. I don’t carry any cards with me and exclusively use tap to pay.
Tap to pay is a choice, with a viable alternative.
You could choose to NOT use tap to pay, carry a bank card, and it would have basically no impact on your ability to conduct your life.
But I agree the banking app itself is a big problem, and something that cannot be lived without.
It is a choice, but one that I find important to adopting an alternate. I keep my wallet slim on purpose. Telling people their choices are wrong because you don’t agree with them is not going to get widespread adoption which is important for the long term health and success of such a ambitious project.
Cards are inconvenient
Not to berate you but this is a bit of a Linux-pilled response.
Tap to pay and Android auto are conveniences that are of importance to a lot of people. Not everyone chooses to use it, but losing those features will mean Linux phones will exclude a significant proportion of the population that would otherwise be open to using them.
You can also choose NOT to have a phone at all… Or a bank account.
Just because you personally don’t find something needed doesn’t mean it’s true for others.
If you actually see what needs each country has for phones (by law), and also what needs normal users have, you would change your mind. It’s not just about one user here, one user there that doesn’t need these features, but the whole. I have an e/OS Murena phone (very private foss android fork) for example that I can’t use here in Greece because it doesn’t do banking (the bank app doesn’t work). Additionally, here in Greece we need gov apps (e.g. to get prescriptions, and to not have our ID with us all the time). These don’t run on “foss” versions of android (let alone clear linux OSs).
Yeah that would make me pretty damn angry. What about people who don’t have phones at all, what are they supposed to do?
No country should require the technology of 2 monopolies by law.
I’ve never used tap to pay. I don’t want any banking info on my phone. In the US, we don’t need any payment apps. Cash and cards work just fine and never run out of battery power.
There’s no way I would ever connect my phone to a modern car with anything other than an aux cable or a bluetooth adapter that plugs into the headphone jack. They gather up all the data they can an do who knows what with it.
The only people that don’t use tap to pay in my area are grannies. And you do seem very old school since the last time I saw an aux cable was 10 years ago.
The US is not the world though. That’s something Americans need to learn. And having a solution for a single country does not work in the long run for that project. Not in the domain of OSes and phones. Either it’s universal, or it’s doomed to be a niche thing.
Help a non-techy out. I’ve fully switched my computers to Linux (fedora workstation, silver blue, and ubuntu). Been Linux only for several years now. Silverblue is probably my favorite. I’m willing to make the switch for my phone, too. But there are a few things I’m pretty reliant on:
My banking apps, cash app, and, embarrassing as it may be to admit, Grindr.
Any chance of getting those?
Baking apps: pin the websites Grindr: use waydroid or switch to sniffies Cash App: oof, I don’t know if waydroid will be enough for this one.
I’ve honestly never considered using my bank through a mobile browser. Yeah, it I can do that I’d be fine on that front.
Sniffies is completely dead here, and the dudes that are on it are gross. Grindr isn’t much better, but since everyone’s on it you can occasionally find people who are willing to use protection or hosting someone other than some bushes. I’ll try way droid and see if it works. If it doesn’t, I googled it and it says you can use Grindr from desktop if you pay… I may end up having to do that if I made the switch.
Which leaves cash app as the biggie. I’ll try waydroid, but if it doesn’t work I’ll probably end up needing to keep android or switching to iOS (I hate iPhones:( ), or maybe even getting a second phone I use exclusively for cash app. No sim, just my wifi hotspot (can you do a wifi hotspot with a Linux phone yet?). In order to prevent overdrafts and accidental charges, I never spend directly from my bank account. I transfer exactly what I’ll need for each purchase to cash app before the transaction and shop like that. Keeps me aware, and no accidental charges or surprises.
Baking apps: pin the websites
Typically if you want to check your account status sure, that work. Maybe do an IBAN transfer, if somehow 2nd step auth via their app isn’t required, but typically mobile payment, even if it’s not really mobile (e.g. scanning a QRcode on a desktop) requires their app. So in theory yes, in practice for most of the things people use banking daily it’s closer to mobile payment IMHO, which is basically owned by iOS/Android AFAICT.
You can run Android apps on a Linux phone via Waydroid, but banking apps could be an issue if they force these Google intrgrity checks. Grindr probably does not?
Anyway, you should be able to fire up Waydroid on your Linux desktop and test this beforehand. I have never done this myself, so I might have misunderstood something.
Grindr doesn’t even work on GrapheneOS, it’s security checks are insane. I tried the modded Grindr app and they instantly banned my account, so I decided the app isn’t worth my time.
Didn’t blackberry have a fairly good solution where they had an android sandbox running within their OS?
How old are you that you “need” these things.
Is not being able to use tap to pay, or having to plug in an aux cable really that big of an inconvenience?
I’m 31 and would need those things. Makes driving a car how I want much easier. No awkward looking mounts anywhere. Plus I use a super tiny android phone at the moment so instead of looking at a postage stamp for a map I get to look at the big head unit.
Okay I don’t drive so im a bit out of the loop on this but last time i rented a car some 15-20 years ago it had GPS built in that didn’t require connecting, it was a tablet sized interface on the console… is that not a thing anymore? Like do cars in 2025 not have functioning GPS without a phone connected to them? Thats wild if so. A 2008 Toyota Prius could have a built in console navigation system, it ran off a DVD or USB key that you got updates for by mail, and here we are in 2025 you need a phone just to power the cars computer for navigation.
car head units kind of have no knowledge about traffic, construction, and what restaurants are open
Built in gps is a bit shit now and my current car actually doesn’t have one unless i buy an overpriced encrypted sd card with the map data that if i want to update the maps for, have to buy again.
Phones and their map apps allow me to have up to date mapping that also show where there’s roadworks and closures so i can be rerouted elsewhere which is a godsend when you’re in a town or city you’re not familiar with.
Edit: built in now may not be shitter than it was but it is shitter than the new alternatives via android auto (i also don’t use Google maps by the way)
Cars still have built in GPS.
The updates are pretty terrible in my experience.
By that logic, I dont need a phone on me at all times and should just go back to a landline, pay cash for everything, and damn everything convenient.
Some of us use these things and we want to switch to a system free from powerful tech bros. People like you tell us we are a problem for wanting features. That’s a ridiculous thing.
I’m not going to screw with a cell phone while driving. Using the large screen I can quickly glance at, tap what I need or use a voice command on and get my eyes back on the road makes far more sense.
Im not saying its a problem to want features, just saying its sacraficing freedom for convience, its a choice.
If you really wanted to use a Linux phone, there are options. You would have to adapt, you would have to use non-standard solutions, but in the long run you’d have more freedom because of those sacrifices in convenience.
None of the 3 things you mention was common place 10 years ago, its not that much of a setback to carry cash or a card, or to use a dedicated device for navigation. Its fine if you dont want to do that but dont act like you can’t live without tap2pay or a voice assistant if you really wanted to.
Tap to pay is essential to me. I never carry anything more than my phone, so no credit/debit card.
So what happens if your phone is lost or stolen or damaged? How would you pay for a new phone?
As cardfire said, I just have to take my debit/credit card from where it’s usually stored. I have never lost or damadeged my phone since I got one in 98, that’s more than an hedge case.
And I can also buy on the internet without needing physical access to my cards.
The only use case for physical cards is unfortunately gas stations. So 6 times a year in average I need them.
And what did you do five years ago or ten years ago? At what point did Tap to Pay become so convenient and so essential to your life that you’re willing to give up your ability to have complete ownership and control over what’s installed on your phone rather than go back to having a card on you?
It just doesnt seem like that big of a deal to me, but then i never was able to use it anyway because ive been running grapheneOS or another custom rom since before tap2pay even existed.
Tap to pay was relatively common even 10 years ago in US cities. I’ve been tap to pay almost exclusively for 5 years.
Mind you the US is BEHIND on tap to pay technology compared to other countries.
It was not that common 10 years ago, it was only JUST being fully rolled out in the US in 2015 when they finally made it mandatory for cards to have chips in them. I guess I’m just an old man yelling at clouds here, but i just never really felt like using cash or a card was that inconvenient.
I suppose for you tap2pay is as essential as being able to run custom software on my devices is to me, I have been using custom roms since 2009 and I wouldn’t be willing to sacrifice my ability to use GrapheneOS just so i can carry one less card that i can literally fit in my phone case, but hey, different strokes ig.
It became so convenient and essential for me like 8 years ago. When I leave the house I only need my tiny phone and my house key (and sometimes my car key) and that’s it. That’s nice. I don’t want to have to carry more on top of what I already do.
Taking the CC out of the sock drawer, at home. That’s an edge case though. That’s not what we are solving for the other 99.99% of the time …
So you sacrafice your ability to use a more free device because youd rather leave your credit card at home, but thats A choice that you made. If you wanted you could bring a card with you or cast with you or a wallet full of things. Do you not carry ID with you either?
Honestly tap2pay seems like very little advantage over a credit card for having to sacrafice privacy and the ability to control the software on my phone, but thats just me.
Or, touch wood, using cash!
Imagine the horror. Something that can even work if there’s no internet at all, like the cave man used…
Or, sarcasm aside, besides working properly offline, it doesn’t give money to evil companies like visa. Then with the phone there’s yet another evil company profiting from you. And giving people the idea that it’s impossible to live without doing so.
It’s a little extra convenience for those who like it, sure, but it’s crazy to say they can’t live without it.
🙄 first of all, I carry a very limited wallet with me most of the time, and I only have to carry a keychain when I’m in the US.
I was replying to the dismissive person above asking what to do when he loses his phone. Which is absurd in itself.
I will say that it is incredibly liberating to have my one device do almost everything else I care about, mapping, calendaring, communicating with people in meeting with, conducting my purchases, and providing podcasts or tunes all at the same time. I love that I have open source software for almost all of the functions, and well essentially all conglomerated businesses are evil, I trust Visa way more than I trust, say, Bitcoin, or BNPL vendors like Affirm, or Klarna.
I’m not going to handle cash money if I don’t have to because exchange rates are terrible and take margins at EACH transaction, are bulky, are prone to loss and are dirty, while my CC/Debit cards offer zero forex fees.
I value my privacy, and I make reasonable efforts to frustrate the algorithms’ models of me, but quit pretending we all have to be Mennonites, and purity testing your community …
Phone projection for navigation has been significantly better than any built-in navigation on any car I’ve ever driven. The vehicle screens are typically larger than a phone screen so that’s a really nice feature to me.
Built-in car navigation is an useless addition. Just know your city, for car’s sake!
If I was only going around my own city, I wouldn’t be in the car.
Yeah! CarPlay has been amazing to use for navigation. I wouldn’t consider a car that didn’t have something like this.
With that being said, I could be against getting a Linux phone and just leaving an old Android or iPhone in the car for CarPlay use.
I find car play awful. So I guess there is that. Half the time it does something stupid or the screen gets strange or a bunch of other problems like forcing my nav map when I want a different one.
What I want is true screen casting with touch feedback. That’s it.
Yeah, I agree that it could be improved upon, but it is easier than pairing Bluetooth since I can just plug in. Plus having the navigation on the car screen is easier to see than a phone mounted to the dash.
Once the Bluetooth is paired the one time, there is nothing to do though. Get in car, last thing I streamed is now streaming automatically.
1, use contact less smartcard , they are passive devices
2. get a used phone just for that
3. use one of the open source one, anyway siri and the google one are trash abandonned in 2012tap to pay. I don’t see how this can practically be done. Like, at all.
The same way it was done with Google, Samsung and Apple. Just has to become more popular until banks and credit card companies will have to work with developers to make it happen.
android auto/apple CarPlay emulation.
Again, it will have to require the compliance of OEMs. However I see the entirety of these systems disappearing soon as more OEMs want to lock users into paid subscriptions for such features.
voice assistants
I’m not convinced this will ever be useful. Several of the largest tech companies on the planet have tried and all have failed miserably to produce anything useful for decades at this point.
For Linux it could be tied in with terminal commands using an LLM:
“Install Firefox” ->
apt install firefox“Open Firefox” - >
firefox & disownaichat --executealready turns natural language into terminal commands through any OpenAI-compatible API (and OpenRouter provides free Deepseek R1/Kimi K2 access), so there just needs to be speech-to-text.
1 - tap to pay
I still don’t see why phone-based tap-to-pay is even a good thing. What, I should hand over all my financial credentials to Google or Apple or Microsoft in addition to my bank? I think not. I’ll just keep using a physical card, thank you. (Which, by the way, can often still use tap-to-pay as most modern cards have RFID chips embedded. No different than with your phone, except it’s not tied to one of the big oligarchs, even less so if you use a credit union as opposed to a bank.)
2 - android auto/apple CarPlay emulation
Bog-standard bluetooth is more than enough for me.
3 - voice assistants
Why would I need a voice assistant? I can find out information almost as easily just using a search engine. And if I’m driving, I’m not so busy as to be unable to pull over to the side of the road if I absolutely need to check something. Or, you know, get everything ready before I go. At the further risk of yelling at clouds despite my relatively young age (I’m in my early 30s), I think voice assistants and IoT things are largely just fluff that over-complicate things in a world that is already over-complicated.
Not for nothing, tapping to pay with phone is not the same as using the physical card to tap to pay. In the former case, your actual card info is not transmitted.
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Tap to pay with the phone is also much smoother because it emits the NFC signal vs the card which is just inlayed in the card via the chip.
Much smoother process.
The former you said? So phones tap to pay are more private in principle?
Arguably, yes. When you pay with one of the phone wallet options, you transmit a unique set of info, like a verification token or 2FA token for example, which your banking service confirms is valid for your card and the transaction goes through. But the vendor never receives your real card info.
And since a card cannot transmit a unique token every time (because it’s static), it has to include real card info? (Although theoretically it could suffice with limited info as well, I’d imagine. As long as the info gets confirmed by banking service as valid)
1 - you arent. You dont need to. They have it other ways. Tap to pay is done on device with a revokable token. If the device is stolen, the token can’t be easily accessed and can be remotely wiped at any time, unlike a stolen card which you have to call in to disable and even that doesn’t always go over well. 2 - Bluetooth doesn’t give me maps or a UI to access my music, podcasts, etc. 3 - feature parity wins people over. You aren’t going to bring people in to the ecosystem by selling on having less. You can sell on mandating less, but opening with “here are the things a Linux phones CANT do” will never get this off the ground.
That’s the problem. The things you think “people” need is what they already have and it can’t be different. “I want to trust everything on a company online but I want my data to be private and safe.” You have to choose. For those people who think they “need” what you say, they already have apple and Google.
Just like Linux was never meant to replicate windows “features” like cortana and others, and it didn’t, and it works for those who don’t want those things which is why they want Linux.
The requirements for Linux to have your “needs” would make me not want it, and then it would just be a poor version of apple without the trillions of dollars that come with it. It wouldn’t please either side.
The things open source people care will always be a minority. It’s sad but it’s the reality.
The requirements for Linux to have your “needs” would make me not want it,
This is a ridiculous thing to say about something as frivolous and nonmandatory as NFC tap to pay & being able to use a Maps app in your cars dash.
It’s not the existence of the option. It’s the requirements it brings.
Which companies will this phone need to shake hands for that to work? What price will they have to pay? What risks does it bring to my privacy on that phone? What requirements will they have? Banks, car companies, credit card companies etc are not the kind of company I want to see involved in my system.
If magically you can have those agreements without any risk for me, then I’m happy with it. But it’s impossible. You want a different product than mine with those needs.
I need freedom and trust in my system and I would like convenience. You need convenience and would like freedom and trust. It’s a matter of how much you have to sacrifice of one to get the other. It’s a personal choice.
For example, even before Android shitified itself, tap to pay wouldn’t work if you have root or most custom roms. Is it the price I have to pay for your option? Limit how I can use my phone so that Banks can trust it? Imagine if I couldn’t use sudo on Linux because someone wants to bend over to a bank?
I would look for a different system.
Do you own a bank account? A credit card? A car?
Your requests aren’t interoperable with the daily life in 2025. Your incredibly niche requirements instead ensures that the general public cannot have access to a usable reasonably private OS outside the hands of corporations.
If you want these requirements you can rip the code out yourself and load it as a custom ROM, stop being anti progress for things as frivolous and solvable as this.
Not that I own all these, but what do they have to do with my phone? I don’t see any connection to those except where I wanted to create it.
I’m not stopping you from wanting your apple/Linux phone. Or anyone from making it. I’m just saying that I believe that my interests are similar to a lot of people who care about open source, and therefore:
-The people who care about open source will not support that enough to be successfull (currently, as more people keep saying stuff like “I just can’t live without this convenience” it might change).
-The people who care about those conveniences that much don’t care about open source, privacy or freedom, and they won’t support it either. They will only support it if it’s even more convenient and lazy, and for that the apple/Linux phone would have to be even more evil than the current options.
So in my mind it’s a dead end, and I personally I don’t support it. But go for it! And I do believe that over times those conveniences will be seen more and more as needs and soon we might have a Linux phone I wouldn’t want to use. But good for those who want it.
BUT just to be clear, I desperately want a Linux phone, yes! But my concerns are stuff like: does the hardware work well? does the camera work well? Does the GPS work well? What about signal with the telecoms? Battery lifre? You know, mostly hardware related with the software.
Tap to pay, car play, siri, all those things can be on the list, but way down on the bottom.
I feel like you’re conflating some things here. Tap to pay is more private and secure than a bank card, and is more private than most cryptocurrencies. Cash is obviously better, but it is increasingly looking like it might be phased out of some places eventually (I really hope not, but is a legitimate concern). However, you are right that it’s not open source and relies on trusting big companies that don’t like user freedom.
So I would say that some of the people using tap to pay don’t necessarily not care about privacy more than convenience. Some of them just want to be able to use money in places where cash is dying out.
I don’t use tap to pay personally.
Bluetooth works fine (or should work fine) with music, podcasts etc. I do it now with a phone, it’s a standard I don’t see why a mobile device running Linux would be any different.
As for maps, the voice goes over Bluetooth so I don’t see an issue there either.
You can’t choose a specific playlist or album over Bluetooth via the head unit is what they were saying. And with the maps some people don’t like to have the voice on and prefer to actually be able to glance at a map when needed, on the head unit.
True, but then again I dont want to mess with any screen while I am driving. I line up a couple of podcasts or episodes and that is several hours right there. Or stream from my server, and just line up what i want. I can still skip fast forward change tracks, and I don’t see why, on a linux phone, I couldnt make the blue tooth inputs do more if I mapped them that way.
It’s just good in those moments where things have fucked up for some reason and you can either quickly stop at the side and easily deal with it on the head unit or if there’s no traffic around you can slow down and touch the buttons you need to bit by bit while keeping an eye on the road. Or, even better, if you have a co-driver they can sort it for you on a screen that both you and them are able to deal with.
Its funny, because that is my experience with carplay, but not my devices.
Car play fucks up. One of the reasons I don’t want it.
I just want a touchscreen cast. Is that too much to ask?
Touch screen cast would be awesome too. I’d love for there to either be that or an open android auto/car play standard. The former would probably be easier and I imagine some aftermarket head units have that functionality already.
I’ve actually wanted to DIY a head unit at some point and getting a good satnav experience on it would be key to it being a daily DRIVER.
vocal map instructions suck and always will
I noticed that googles is horrendously bad. The open source stuff is ok.
the open source options (that I found) lack hours and public transit maps
…they still have Linux phones?
What phones are adviceable these days for a daily driver? Is there any of them where ALL of the hardware does actually work? As in, most of the ones I’ve seen in the past had major bugs blocking from using either the mobile network, the camera, the sensors or just about everything that wasn’t just the screen and touch input. I have a spare Pixel 7 and a Pinephone Pro (that I never got to work too reliably) I keep around for possible testing of stuff.
Ive heard hood things about the FLX1 but I havent tried it myself.
Im very tempted.
I had to check the calendar to make sure it wasn’t 1 April… seriously, it’s called the
furry phonefuriphone?..Wouldn’t it be pronounced like fury not furry?
yeah they even specify that in the FAQ section
Ha, if that’s your first association, I think that might say more about you than about the phone :P
(Which is not a bad thing.)
It’s a Linux phone. That’s going to turn away exactly zero people, and turn on at least a few…
Good reviews. Unfortunately the device is 18x10x4mm larger than my already gigantic Pixel 9
Likewise, I think I’m just about to buy one for myself. I’ve never used tap-to-pay with my phone, nor a voice assistant, and I don’t really want to. My phone is a web browser that can send text messages, make phone calls, and take pictures. My phone carrier is VoLTE-only for calls, and the FLX1 says that it has VoLTE now. I also need to use one specific Android app for work, but the FLX1 has some type of Android emulation which hopefully will make that usable.
The FLX1 is also the only one that claims to have a working camera. I’m not sure how good the pictures look, but every other Linux phone always just says “partial support” for the camera on the PostmarketOS wiki. The FLX1, with the stock OS, should take adequate pictures from what I understand.
google is forcing Gemini into everything and you can’t turn it off,
You can still shut off Gemini as of right now. I don’t know what it’ll be like in the future though.
Google said they are going to make it so you can turn off directly interacting with Gemini but it will always be running in the background, spying on you.
That’s North Korean levels of spyware, jfc
“No, it’s okay when we do it”
Source please
First thing I found: https://proton.me/blog/turn-off-gemini-on-android#fully-disable
Oh, I’ve seen that. I’ve had assistant turned off for like 2 years now. It became a security hazard when they took away the sound indicator that it was listening.
Yea they are making it a background process you can’t turn off now and replacing google assistant with it.
It’s an interesting discussion to witness in these posts: convenience vs privacy and control.
The convenience and integration you get with commercial products like IOS or Android comes at a price. Everything that matters to you on a daily basis bundled together in one convenient package means that all things which define you as a person are conveniently interconnected for corporations to sell out your data for everyone who wants it.
GPS: your current whereabouts at any moment in time and a complete history of where you have been in the past
Payment functions: what you are buying and where you have bought it
Communication (Messengers, Phone): Who you communicate with and what you are talking about
Photos and Videos: Real life evidence from all the stuff mentioned above.
Web Browsing: Interests and Needs which will be used against you in a totalitarian surveillance state, at a glance
If you in 2025 still think this convenience is there to please you as a consumer I have bad news for you.
Convenience and interconnection of services look nice and useful but at the same time they’re a privacy nightmare that makes Orwell’s 1984 look like a bedtime story for children.
What this all comes down to: Strictly airgapping the boundaries between the different services is the only way to have a modicum of privacy. Photos do not belong in a cloud controlled by someone you don’t know and should be taken from a separate device. Navigation belongs on a separate device with no internet connection, payment should not be done with a personal identifier at all (if avoidable) etc. Living your life this way might seem terribly inconvenient, but as someone who was alive at a time where all this convenience didn’t exist I can tell you it has its advantages too. You’ll rediscover what really matters.
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I think some of this data is stuff im fine to share with some caveats. I think we can have a world of convenience and a world where people have a decent level of privacy. Of course there will always be tradeoffs but we can find a sane middle ground because at the moment its 0 privacy.
GPS data can be shared while im using a map to navigate and They must not “know who I am”. I am ok to be a datapoint but I dont like when they build a personal profile with this information.
Payments are fine if its my bank and they never sell that info.
Communication must be encrypted and I do not want them knowing who I am talking to.
Photo and video thats private should be encrypted but anything posted public is public. I would use cloud storage but it needs to be encrypted.
Web browsing I dont mind if the site tracks what I do on the site but it must only be stuff I do on site and not build a profile using my off site data.
That’s a bit extreme. Some of those are not linked.
Yes you can not have cloud pictures without having to trust the server. But you can have an open source, inspected system that uses gps without any related data being shared. Gps doesn’t send data, it’s the system choice to create a way to send it to someone. You can have a Linux phone that doesn’t chose to do that.
You can have convenience with privacy, but the companies offering those services don’t want that, nor do the consumers care.
And those consumers would not care about a Linux phone.
I think problem number 1 might be solvable if GNU Taler succeeds in europe as the digital euro backend. https://taler.net/
Of course this would only apply to people in the EU, but who knows, others might follow.
Is this similar to Wero as a back end or different parts of the process?
Never heard of it. I’m not from Switzerland, but what is this exatly and how can I support it?
Switzerland has GNU Taler. They launched it there a few months ago, lucky for you. Check its website: https://taler-ops.ch/de/
You just kind of need to wait for merchants to use it. Could become mainstream somewhere around 2028.
From wikipedia:
GNU Taler is a free software-based microtransaction and electronic payment system. Unlike most other decentralized payment systems, GNU Taler does not use a blockchain. A blind signature is used to protect the privacy of users as it prevents the exchange from knowing which coin it signed for which customer.
The wallet is like cryptocurrency wallets in that when you lose it (lose your cryptographic keys or phone), you lose all the money inside of it. So you must keep it safe like your own physical wallet. It works with NFC, so it can replace Google Pay or Apple Pay or whatever.
It also works offline, which is awesome. Though you do need to be online sometimes to refresh your digital money or they expire and become unspendable. The expiry is set by the GNU Taler operator.
Do keep in mind that receivers are NOT anonymous. Only senders are anonymous. This is by design and is there to apply tax to merchants and also combat fraud, etc.
You can learn how it works by reading their docs: https://docs.taler.net/
The FAQ is also a good thing to read: https://www.taler.net/en/faq.html
Where I live, we do not have tap to pay, we just scan qr-codes. But I guess the vendor would need to enable that. But, if i have a physical card, that’s good enough for me.
That’s more secure.
…except when someone just puts a sticker of a malicious qr code over the merchant’s qr code when they aren’t looking ;)
That’s unlikely to happen here. We have a universal qr-code system. And when you can into any banking app, it will display the vendors name.
The payment processors, will distribute placards that have the qr-code and the vendors name, so it’s pretty easy to tell.
Also, if it’s not a qr-code from a payment processor and it’s one, i could generate? Then the checkout screen is different.
tap to pay, voice assistants, carplay…everything I hate about modern phones. Don’t threaten me with a good time, Linux.
You may not like tap to pay or CarPlay but I and a lot of others do.
It’s a deal breaker for me to not have these two features in a product I’d like to spend hard earned money on.
But those features are not OS implementation issues. They are simply hardware driver issues.
