Her pivot away from a winning campaign and buy in on immigration lies by major media companies shows that she’s an idiot. Sorry but I would take Hillary Clinton 2.0 before this dumbass. A lack of humanity on gaza is also a clear moral failure.
I think anyone without a policy proposal to end gerrymandering and make housing affordable has too little vision to take on the current moment. Anyone unwilling to sanction Israel is a moral failure.
she’s literally just black hillary clinton 2.0
she believes in nothing except whatever the Party’s donors tells her to
Please fucking don’t
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fucking delusional
She was not a bad candidate: a smart, fun, relatively young centrist. Her candidacy was dragged down mostly by Biden’s reluctance to tap out and by Trump barely surviving an assassination. Without either of those two things (especially the latter) she might very well have been the first female US president.
If she really becomes the candidate, the way to victory is for her not to embrace the woke left (especially the fucking morons who worked against her because they hallucinated some crazy Gaza things), and go for the center more clearly. Of course she’ll need to denounce the far right as well, but somehow I imagine that won’t be a problem for a D candidate.
the woke left
And that’s the point at which you discredited yourself.
because they hallucinated some crazy Gaza things
Arms-length complicity in genocide is nearly as bad as open promotion of it.
and go for the center more clearly
And where’s that center again? Splitting the difference between run-of-the-mill corporatist Democrats and MAGA fascists? Running concentration camps for asylum seekers, but with slightly better towels and soap? Nobody will vote for MAGA Lite. If a voter wants fascism, they’ll go for the full-fat version.
And remember: this is centre by American standards
This is center as defined by those that shape the narrative - not specifically by Americans in any representative or descriptive sense.
I was with you for a bit. But I disagree on a few points:
- I don’t think she was dragged down as much by Biden’s reluctance to drop out so much as her failure to differentiate herself from him. You could make an argument that Biden’s late exit and the lack of a primary worked against her. She also became known early on in his administration for being difficult to work with, but this might not have weighed heavily on the minds of a disengaged electorate.
- The “woke left” is basically ad hominem at this point. It’s a sort of shibboleth that right leaning voters understand but most left wingers and centrists tune out because it has been overused, sort of like “socialist” and “communist” before that. To be sure, there are irritating and unrealistic social justice warriors, but they are actually a minority and overrepresented in media.
- Gaza is a genocide. Don’t take it from me, take it from the ICC, the UN, various scholars, and many dispassionate third party observers. Not sure what you mean here, but in my opinion, genocide is not something to compromise on for the greater good. Kamala would have been better on this issue than Donald Trump, but this is a huge miscalculation by the people advising her.
- Denunciation of the far right is consistently a problem for Democratic leadership, with a few exceptions.
Democrats do need to realise that elections but particularly presidential elections are a gut check. People vote for the president that leads boldly and fearlessly. Someone who has conviction and doesn’t seem to deliver messaging that has been pre-planned. When Trump was shown to be inaccurate during the campaign, people liked him more because he appeared to be speaking extemporaneously.
The problem is that worldwide this is not a time for centrism. Promising “nothing will fundamentally change” is a great way to immediately lose an election.
Great time for the US to try 3 or 4 parties
Or, more realistically, hijacking the Democratic party and dragging it kicking and screaming towards the left.
You may not have noticed but the entire world has lurched to the right. You can’t win an election by wooing voters on the left, you’ll just lose votes on the right.
The American left will just stay home and pay on reddit about how the dems are secretly right wing capitalists anyway.
Which US politician has been attempting to woo voters on the left, in your opinion?
Embracing centrism, like real centrism and not some Joe Rogan “centrism” would be an amazing change compared to the current situation. I agree that it’s never an easy thing to sell though. Centrism is boring.
Please fuck off. Let Tim Walz run
I want Jasmine Crocket or AOC. Waltz will do though.
I completely wish she won last election… but there’s no way we’re taking a risk on her again.
I’m not a huge fan of Newsom, but at least he’s been loudly attacking this current administration. Maybe she has too, but I don’t hear from her in my news cycles.
Unless some progressive comes out and surprises everyone, Newsom will likely be my choice.
You mean the transphobe who destroys homeless people’s meager possessions and platforms Nazis? Gross.
We don’t need to settle for that sleazeoid. We can do way better.
Can we? I’m not saying there aren’t less sleazy options, there absolutely are. But winning isn’t just about being the best candidate, honestly that barely has anything to do with it. Winning is much more about popularity and rhetoric.
Newsom is an opportunistic snake and will say whatever he needs to to get elected and then do absolutely whatever he wants and none of it will help you. He is not better than Trump, he IS Trump, for a different audience with different motivations.
I think Newsom is like a Republican from the 70s, but comparing him to Trump like that is insane. We need to get out of this mess and a moderate is FAR better than anything the Republicans can push out.
I’ll likely vote for the progressive in the primaries, but if Newsom is the candidate it’s better than the alternatives.
This is the state of American Democratic politics these days. If the candidate is not exactly what you want, then they’re Satan incarnate and they might as well let the Republicans win.
the acrual Left has made massive gains since Trump took the stage, hard not to agree that accelerationism might have been what we needed
Sure, if you’re not one of the victims of accelerationism and don’t care what happens to them while we accelerate.
If I’m voting for the next president, I believe that they should be representing all Americans instead of primarily representing corporations and big donors.
Ideally, they should have clear principles, charisma, an ability to lead, a vision for the future, and have the ability to recognize that not everybody is as privileged as they are.
I don’t feel that a person who fails to meet any of the aforementioned criteria is suited for the highest office in the country. Maybe that’s just me.
Sure, but it’s a multiple choice question and, right now, there are only two possible options. If both options are bad, the best use of your vote is choosing the less bad one.
The primary is 7 months away. Nobody can vote yet and neither of us know exactly what will happen between now and then.
Regardless, I see the person pushing populist policies as the lesser evil. Janet Mills could win the race if she leaned into populist policies, but she won’t.
Janet Mills is the most unpopular Democratic governor in the US and is extremely pro-corporate. I don’t see her winning against Susan Collins.
Oh, he’ll be moderate, you think? Good luck with that. You think they pulled him out of a time machine from the 70s? They didn’t. He’s a product of the current political situation, he’s PART of the current political situation, he’s in the same orbits as all these people and he’s got the same people orbiting around him. If you think he’s going to move things back to the center I don’t think you understand how broken things really are. They’ve been broken for a long time, and they’re not broken in a repairable way. He’s not your champion, he’s not going to save you. You think voting for him represents “trying” to fix the problems but you’re just being led astray by organizations and powers that don’t give a fuck about any of us and are not motivated by anything we care about.
Okay, well you can vote for Vance then.
I understand what he is.
But compared to the shit show we have now… unless we get a progressive in there, what other choice do we have? Not voting? Going third party so that Repugs win again?
Stop fucking acting like newsom has already won the primary for starters. Also maybe don’t make people that have been targeted by newsom feel like they will still be under the boot if you dont want the dems to loose again.
*lose
So no actual response? People like you are the reason dems keep losing.
Stop fucking acting like newsom has already won the primary for starters.
Did you respond to the wrong message? They never did that.
I don’t accept the premise that he is progressive in any meaningful way but you’re entitled to your opinion.
What other choice will there be in the next election? I don’t know, it’s too early to say. Maybe there won’t be another choice, but I think there will be plenty of interesting choices, which one is ideal is again much too early to call and you’re right we probably won’t achieve the ideal.
All I’m trying to say is, don’t trust him, and whatever ends up happening, whether he’s elected or not, don’t stop there. Job not done. He’s not going to fix this, he’s not a solution. More work needs to be done, so much more, by all of us. People need to learn civic responsibility again and start to participate in the democratic process beyond just showing up to vote. That means education, starting by educating ourselves first, which isn’t easy and it is being made harder every day. Then we can start to make progress towards unifying people, finding common ground, finding the things we can at least all agree on even if we don’t agree with the best way to do them, and starting to undo the merciless division that has been done to us. That also means outreach, that means activism, that means organizing, that means finding ways to change the system. Not all of them will be pretty. It might mean civil disobedience. It might mean violence. It might mean civil war. I don’t have a crystal ball to see what the future holds, all I know is that everyone who cares about the future of democracy in any way, shape, form or place, needs to start adjusting to the now hopefully clearly evident reality; it is not a given, we need to fight for it, and fight with everything we have, because there is clearly a lot stacked against us. But it does not mean we cannot win. In fact we must win, eventually. There is no other choice.
You may have misunderstood my last comment. I don’t think Newsom is progressive by any means. I always vote for the progressive candidates in the primary. And in the general, I’ll vote Democrat and whatever progressive propositions.
I just don’t think Kamala can win because people are sexist/racist… and she is pretty much the same moderate vision.
I think I did misunderstand then, sorry. At least I’ve hopefully made my position clear.
Do not pre comply with the bullshit autocrat wannabe Newsom being shoved down our throats.
He’s literally mimicking Trump and so many fucking stupid Dem voters are falling for the same thing we make fun of Republicans for.
Fuck Newsom. AOC is the only valid one I’ve heard so far.
Please don’t.
nah, let her.
it’s time they had a proper third party down there anyways, the democrats are fucking useless
I agree the Democrats are useless, but the only time in modern history a third party has gotten any measurable percentage of the popular vote is when Ross Perot ran as an independent and got 19%.
Teddy Roosevelt got 27% in 1912 with the Bull Moose party. Not sure if that counts as modern history.
It’s true that a third party candidate would be a major long shot but fuck it, what do we have to lose?
What do we stand to lose? Try fucking everything, when the republicans easily win against a fractured DNC and America slips even further into fascism.
But the DNC is already entirely ineffective. We are already losing every single time we vote for either major party. Even when the Dems are in office, they appear incapable or unwilling to accomplish meaningful progressive political objectives, so we are slipping further into fascism anyway, no?
This has been the status quo for generations already, how long does it have to continue before we cut our losses and make a risky gambit? I just don’t understand what you think the DNC is protecting us from, because in my view they are also part of the problem.
I stand corrected.
Let’s not and just say she did. Time to move on.
Lemmy Left reflexively votes in trump again
But but but what about Gaza?
Apparently not actually a concern.
I know. Weird.
You have to put your own oxygen mask on before you can help others.
In all fairness, I would bet that the percentage of the population as a whole that engages in strategic voting is very low. It’s not just people on here who are well to the left of the US center complaining that they want a more-left candidate who aren’t doing it.
JFC don’t. We don’t even want to hear you. I would rather have AOC as a choice over you.
How about they both run in the primaries in a democratic process?
you thought kamala was bad? AOC would TANNKKK the dems
I hate how true this is. She’s popular with Millennials but that’s about it. The vast majority of democrat voters prefer conservative establishment candidates, and they think she’s too extreme.
Where is this bullshit coming from? Conservative establishment candidates have been what keeps losing, if they’re not already an incumbent.
Age Of Cowtron?
AOC would be a stellar choice IMO, but 90% of the 1% would probably be against her, and that’s about half of all the money in USA.
Social democracies in Scandinavia work DESPITE being undermined by the rich, so the political shrewdness and tenacity that would be required of her is insane. She would need a lot of backup from the population, and the population will need patience.Because rebuilding the institutions in USA to their former standard is already a lot of work, but rebuilding them to the standard of a proper social democracy is something USA has never seen before, and will be very difficult.
For starters it requires USA to become an actual democracy instead of the dysfunctional democracy that USA many Americans praise as divine and sent from heaven. A multi party system is a must for true democracy, and until USA has at least 8 parties represented in congress, it is not really a functioning democracy at all.Hey, keep away from AOC, we need her to take over Chuck’s Senate seat. The rest of you can have her after a term or three, she’ll still be plenty young enough to run, and maybe by then the country will be ready to vote for a woman for President…
From an outsider perspective, I think unless you get AOC now there’s not going to be much of a country left for another round sometime later… Bernie has spent his whole life with “maybe on the next one”. It will never be on the next one.
I say this as someone who loves AOC and what she does…
If AOC runs, she will lose.
That’s just the state of the nation right now. The only thing America hates more than women is a progressive. The culture of the country right now is way too volatile. The country just isn’t ready for a female president. Not because a woman can’t do it… but because the country is way too far gone with sexism and misogyny.
It was a long shot when Hillary ran, it was long shot when Kamala ran. If you think it’s not a long shot now after the MAGA crowd has been systematically destroying everything… and you want to run a Berniecrat woman? At this time? In this country?
I think you are right, and I also think it would be better for USA to “normalize” and find its center first.
Then AOC will have better chances of actually accomplishing something.Now we can only hope (as a foreigner) that USA will normalize, and not become a dictatorship.
Don’t worry, she’s not in it to win it. She’s in it to build up some support, then give way to Gavin before Super Tuesday. She’ll be 2028’s Amy Klobuchar.
I thought she was married to a white guy.
Fuck off!
I’m fine with that, as long as there’s an actually democratic primary process.
There won’t be. There hasn’t since I was a kid and I’m halfway to my natural grave.
Will Trump let you run? Be careful because you may as well get deported, and no judge or past president will help you. USA loves Trump, that’s why it’s still there.
Trump would support her because he can win from her easily.
