• ZMonster@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Wow, this comment section… Yikes. Without getting deep in the weeds, testament means covenant. It was god’s new agreement with man. In layman’s terms, matthew 1:1 starts out like, “here’s the deal man”.

    • KneeTitts@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      It was god’s new agreement with man

      Um, isnt ‘gawd’ the boss? Cant he just make rules and a system that works and boom it happens?

      Frankly instead of all this armchair biblical experts, its probably better to get answers from real experts like Justin from Deconstruction Zone.

      • ZMonster@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        No argument here. Literally. I have no dog in any respective race. Figuratively.

        And I would imagine that the community “no stupid questions” is not intended to be a repository of questions exclusively for SME’s. As I understand it is an open forum to ask unspecified questions judgement free. I would presume that since the question is judgement free, the responses should be too. But this comment section is seething with judgements that add very little to the conversation regarding the basic query from OP. So, thanks for the suggestion on Justin. I assume they have a lot to say and I’m sure others will find it invaluable. This is not something I have a significant interest in myself so I’ll take your word for it. Thanks.

            • Jarix@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              No worries, learned to have to speak as if no one knows anything when I started running DnD games. It’s really easy to do when you know a subject as well as you seem to

              • ZMonster@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Lol, DnD types are the test case of outliers. If nothing else, it taught me to never assume someone isn’t a player.

                Like, one campaign from an OCD person where even the scents and smells were planned. And then a different campaign where the smells were not. Just a pure dichotomy of human prototypes.

                • Jarix@lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  Scents and smells? That is so far beyond my ability to prepare but that’s awesome for you(I assume!)

                  Ive found its a good baseline to start with until you can gauge who you are speaking to.

                  In connection with the comic XKCD - 10000,it has helped a socially awkward geek like me when speaking to people in meetings or on projects. Kind of follow the I said it outright the first time and emphasize it slightly the first time I use a phrase if I’m going to refer to it a few times and try to shorten it for convenience

      • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
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        6 months ago

        Oh dude I just saw Justin on The Line last night with Forrest Valkai, dude seems to know the Bible like the back of his hand

  • boolean_sledgehammer@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Not the same gods, not the same authors, written at completely different times, and written in the context of completely different cultures.

  • bitcrafter@programming.dev
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    6 months ago

    Keep in mind that most likely the historical Jesus was just one of many apocalyptic preachers going around telling people that, within the lifetime of some present, God was going to come down and vanquish evil once and for all, so one had better be prepared and be on God’s good side when this happened. (Incidentally, the Romans probably could not have cared less about this; it was when they got word that he was claiming to be an earthly king–which may have been how Judas actually betrayed him–that they got seriously pissed and executed him because they had a zero tolerance policy for that kind of thing.)

    You can see imminent apocalypse theme in the epistles where John Paul writes that there is no real point making big life changes like getting married since the world is going to end any day; amusingly, when this did not happen, they needed to start coming up with alternative policies, and so other letters start to set down rules which thematically contradict the earlier letters, but it turns out that there are other things about these letters that make them different too so I’m many cases they are considered to be forgeries. (Obviously this is an oversimplification of the academic research!)

    (Also, it’s also worth noting that John Paul and the apostles had really different notions of what Jesus was all about, and part of the whole point of Acts is to paper over these differences and make it seem like they had all been past of one team all along.)

    Finally, it is worth pointing out that there were a lot of texts floating around in the same genre as Revelation, so it was not all that unique and it almost did not make it’s way into the Bible, but the Church Fathers thought incorrectly that the John who wrote it was the same as the author of the Gospel of John; if they had known that these were two different Johns, then the Left Behind series would never have been written (amount other consequences).

    So in conclusion, be very wary of trying to read a lot of significance into the New Testament as a whole because it was not a unified document written with single purpose.

    Edit: Gah! I wrote John above when I meant Paul. How embarrassing!

  • originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com
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    6 months ago

    its almost like the whole thing is an amalgam of thousands of texts edited and repurposed across thousands of years by human beings with various motivations.

  • tazeycrazy@feddit.uk
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    6 months ago

    It depends where you read. There is fire and brimstone in the new testament. Revelation is a book that doesn’t hold back and we see a wrothful God of judgment. But then there stories of Josiph and his brothers, or the book of Daniel, shows that there is forgivness in the old testament as well.

  • Alsjemenou@lemy.nl
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    6 months ago

    The reason is because those texts are much older, and that was the style of religion practiced back then. Most God stories and stories about Gods in that period were like it. Most city states and tribal states had their own Gods that reflected them, and conflicts were gravely exaggerated. Also literally everything that happened in that state were an attribute or reflection of that particular God. With stories of how that attribute came to be, which reflected back in the people and in that way religion was a complex social interaction.

    The people who wrote the stories we now know as the old Testament didnt write them as a part of a bible. These were stories of people who were taken out of their states and captured. Forced to live outside their land, but they took their God with them. Who became this omnipresent God that would lead people back to a promised land. Including all the complex social interaction people had with their mostly oral religious stories and traditions.

    And it’s the continued tradition that lead to the formation of religious scholarship and the idea that Gods could be of the earth and not just of a state. Which brought about new thoughts, new traditions, new religious complexity written down in the New Testament. Which lead to the desire to make religious books encapsulating all of religious thought.

    And only much later came literalism, the mistake to take everything in the Bible literal. which sparked the formation of atheism as we know it today.

  • Redditmodstouchgrass@lemmy.zip
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    6 months ago

    My take is that it’s a reflection of the Israelite people. It’s easy to be all fire and brimstone when you can back it up with military force. Suspiciously that all went away after they got conquered…

  • Flax@feddit.uk
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    6 months ago

    That’s simply not true. God talks more about Hell in the New Testament than He does in the old testament. He also is forgiving in the old (Exodus 34:7, Psalm 103:12, Psalm 86:5)

    There’s basically no change.

  • Zier@fedia.io
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    6 months ago

    Fiction usually has highs and lows. Unfortunately all the authors wrote under pseudonyms, and multiple editors went through the plagiarized stories, some books were left out, and the consistency is just a mess. Not to mention the terrible translations. Your local Library most certainly has better Fiction books that are very well written and highly entertaining.

  • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
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    6 months ago

    I feel like y’all are forgetting about all the heinous shit God does in the new testament. Just because he’s not all up front fire and brimstone about it doesn’t mean he isn’t still an evil bastard in the new book

    • YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today
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      6 months ago

      Could you link something cause when I Google any combination of “new testament god angry/vengeful” I’m not getting allot besides religious sites sane washing it.

      • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
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        6 months ago

        I’m not gonna link a source, but here’s some chapters from the good book itself:

        Acts 5, God kills Ananias and Sapphira for withholding too much of their taxes. Seems like an overreaction for the new forgiving, loving, kind God.

        Acts 12, God strikes down King Herod for accepting praise or some shit, which is similar to the egotistical, vengeful, immature punishments the God of the old testament frequently handed out.

        Jesus (who is also God) throws some incredibly immature and irresponsible super-powered toddler tantrums, like in Mark 11 where he curses a fig tree for not bearing fruit when he was hungry, even though it was out of season, and in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, Jesus forces demons to possess a bunch (like, thousands) of pigs that just happen to be nearby, causing them all to cast themselves off a cliff and die. Jesus suggests/condones rape as a punishment in multiple instances, which is pretty fucked up, but is consistent with the whole “the sexual punishment fits the sexual “crime”” motif you see all throughout the New Testament. Jesus himself isn’t just the peace-loving, love-thy-neighbor hippie they try to portray him as - in Matthew 10 he says “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword”, basically acknowledging and condoning religious violence. Very like, un-kumbayah of him, man.

        Pick a page from Revelation, that whole book is basically just God bringing about the apocalyptic end times in increasingly violent and cruel ways, including killing people a second time by tossing them into a lake of fire for not being Christian enough to make it onto his nice list.

        The continued existence of hell is a big one for me as well. You’d think a truly loving, kind, and forgiving God would get rid of the eternal damnation spirit torture prison. He also doesn’t end other universally-accepted-as-immoral practices like slavery, but instead doubles down on it in Ephesians, Colossians, and probably a bunch of other places. All in all, the God of the new testament is just as much of a bastard as in the old, he’s just hiding behind the introduction of his new son (who is also a bit of a bastard, but maybe a tad less so, so people accept it) and the weird blood magic ritual sacrifice storyline.

        Edit: my claim that the God of the new testament is unchanged from the one in the old is also supported by scripture - James 1 and Hebrews 13 say as much, and even Jesus says he’s not coming to shake things up, that all the old laws (including the fire and brimstone ones) still apply in Matthew 5.

        • lazylion_ca@lemmy.ca
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          6 months ago

          Jesus’ instructions on divorce are pretty unJesus like.

          Slightly off topic but DAE find it convenient that Jesus’ first lecture to his new disciples was about divorce? Like hey, guys. Forget fishing and making money and handling business, and dont worry about your wives anymore.

        • YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today
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          6 months ago

          I’ve been out of the church for a while but always imagined Jesus as a current day socialist with feeding the poor & “how you treat the least of me…” stuff. Shame that book is so contradictory.

          • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works
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            6 months ago

            The entire thing is contradictory, on purpose, to give people excuses to commit atrocities in the name of their “kind and loving” God

    • Tinidril@midwest.social
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      6 months ago

      Let’s not forget that prior to Jesus any punishments were over when you died. Permanent Hell was a new testament thing.

  • Harbinger01173430@lemmy.worldBanned
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    6 months ago

    God became terrified of us after the tower of babel, so he told his minions to write the new testament in a more positive way, so we wouldn’t seek to invade his realm and take control over creation in revenge for the atrocities he did to us.